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Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS[W:452]

Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

You started fighting al Qaeda in A-Stan back in 2001. Today they're bigger, cover a vastly larger area and are menacing the region like never before, lol, you can't "eliminate" the "problem" permanently. The US military may have its uses, this is obviously not one of them.

It is like a fire. You fight it, where need be, well knowing that you cannot put it out before it has run its course. Sometimes you won't be able to save the house that is closer to the woods.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

It is like a fire. You fight it, where need be, well knowing that you cannot put it out before it has run its course. Sometimes you won't be able to save the house that is closer to the woods.

Using the fire analogy, it was contained, and apparently the US fire department needs new training on extinguishing.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

So all of the other massive crimes against humanity don't bother you?

List of Saddam's Crimes Is Long - ABC News

Saddam's deeds are ghastly..but how is this any business of the US? Imagine this scenario, what if the UK invaded the US to ban guns because they felt they were helping the citizens stay alive? Such as in a humanitarian effort. We can't invade other countries because we do not believe in their culture. There are MANY countries who do not like our culture...such as the ME. Look how we turn our eyes away from Saudi Arabia. They are just as bad as ISIS with the exception of not invading other countries. If we were invaded by another country on our own soil, I think Americans would fight together and destroy them...military or not. The Iraqi's are a culture of oppression and it is all they know, the normal folks do not have it in them to fight. I agree with the OP...the ME is a waste of time.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Saddam's deeds are ghastly..but how is this any business of the US? Imagine this scenario, what if the UK invaded the US to ban guns because they felt they were helping the citizens stay alive? Such as in a humanitarian effort. We can't invade other countries because we do not believe in their culture. There are MANY countries who do not like our culture...such as the ME. Look how we turn our eyes away from Saudi Arabia. They are just as bad as ISIS with the exception of not invading other countries. If we were invaded by another country on our own soil, I think Americans would fight together and destroy them...military or not. The Iraqi's are a culture of oppression and it is all they know, the normal folks do not have it in them to fight. I agree with the OP...the ME is a waste of time.

The Baathist regime in Iraq needed to be overthrown, not because it was brutal and oppressive, but because it invaded its neighbours, continued to constitute a threat to the region and violated its cease-fire agreements. That is what set it apart from the Baathist regime in Syria, which is every bit as brutal and oppressive but doesn't follow and adventurous foreign policy.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Saddam's deeds are ghastly..but how is this any business of the US? Imagine this scenario, what if the UK invaded the US to ban guns because they felt they were helping the citizens stay alive? Such as in a humanitarian effort. We can't invade other countries because we do not believe in their culture. There are MANY countries who do not like our culture...such as the ME. Look how we turn our eyes away from Saudi Arabia. They are just as bad as ISIS with the exception of not invading other countries. If we were invaded by another country on our own soil, I think Americans would fight together and destroy them...military or not. The Iraqi's are a culture of oppression and it is all they know, the normal folks do not have it in them to fight. I agree with the OP...the ME is a waste of time.

If our president was instead a dictator who was gassing our own citizens, I would be glad if the UK liberated us, wouldn't you? And as far as letting other countries get away with it, I don't think we should let them either, we simply don't have the resources to stop everyone.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Using the fire analogy, it was contained, and apparently the US fire department needs new training on extinguishing.

The woodland fires usually are only contained and burn out on there own. Or at least that is my impression from watching the efforts on Mallorca. And there they are relatively small fires compared with the US ones.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

It depends on what was more important to them. Having a horrible dictator and ok life or an elected government and a horrible life. To some of us ideology is worth dying for. To others what is most important is housing and feeding their family.

There was certainly a portion of the population who were terrorized by the regime. But that wasn't the case for most Iraqis.

Life was OK under Saddam? That would come as news to most Iraqis.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Well, I learned from my year in Vietnam that it's really impossible to be an occupying army in any foreign culture. That is, countries don't like to be invaded by any other.

You can't blame the Iraqis--why in hell do they want to fight for the gang of thieves who invaded them? The "government" is just a puppet of the US.

Both PoS and Montecresto liked this post.

I am quite sure there are others I am not immediately aware of, but for my money, (in no particular order) PoS, Montecresto and Henry David have as much common sense on foreign affairs (especially involving America) as anyone on this board.

No doubt Neocons think their posts on these matters are dead wrong.

Neocons? No one is more of a threat to America then they are. Not ISIS or China or anyone...no one.


As for the topic? Once again, the meddling Neocons have made a bad situation far, FAR worse. They took a united country under a brutal dictator and turned it into a complete mess with a FAR lower standard of living for most Iraqi's AND a military that would have a difficult time fighting an annoyed group of hamsters.



Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq...one disaster after another thanks in large part to American meddling. Way to go you neocon morons.
Not only did you utterly fail in your goals...you got thousands of Americans killed and cost her taxpayers over a trillion dollars.
I'd mention the tens of thousands of innocent civilians in those countries that are dead now thanks to your 'policing the world' nonsense...but you don't much care about them now, do you?
 
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Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

The Baathist regime in Iraq needed to be overthrown, not because it was brutal and oppressive, but because it invaded its neighbours, continued to constitute a threat to the region and violated its cease-fire agreements. That is what set it apart from the Baathist regime in Syria, which is every bit as brutal and oppressive but doesn't follow and adventurous foreign policy.

No, after the 1st war the Iraqi military no longer a threat to anyone.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Both PoS and Montecresto liked this post.

I am quite sure there are others I am not immediately aware of, but for my money, (in no particular order) PoS, Montecresto and Henry David have as much common sense on foreign affairs (especially involving America) as anyone on this board.

No doubt Neocons think their posts on these matters are dead wrong.

Neocons? No one is more of a threat to America then they are. Not ISIS or China or anyone...no one.


As for the topic? Once again, the meddling Neocons have made a bad situation far, FAR worse. They took a united country under a brutal dictator and turned it into a complete mess with a FAR lower standard of living for most Iraqi's AND a military that would have a difficult time fighting an annoyed group of hamsters.



Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq...one disaster after another thanks in large part to American meddling. Way to go you neocon morons.
Not only did you utterly fail in your goals...you got thousands of Americans killed and cost her taxpayers over a trillion dollars.
I'd mention the tens of thousands of innocent civilians in those countries that are dead now thanks to your 'policing the world' nonsense...but you don't much care about them now, do you?


Oh brother. :roll: Isolationism is the habit of waiting for the huge and devastating wars rather than fighting small ones periodically.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Who deceived us?

And we gained the right for citizens of Iraq to vote, maybe they'll eventually get their act together, even though it's not looking good now.

The same group that deceived us and Mary Tillman about how her son died. The same group that deceived us regarding Jessica Lynch's experiences. The same group that deceives us about Abbottabad, that same group of known liars, that Cult Of Mendacity, the Pentagon.

As Ike liked to call the group, the Military Industrial Complex and its corporate media. That is who deceived us. Some have been deceived, others have come to realize they've been deceived. :peace
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

It is like a fire. You fight it, where need be, well knowing that you cannot put it out before it has run its course. Sometimes you won't be able to save the house that is closer to the woods.

Using the fire analogy, it was contained, and apparently the US fire department needs new training on extinguishing.

Using the fire analogy, the fire fighters shouldn't leave (be ordered to withdraw) before the fire is really out, and the local fire fighters can handle any other fires that might crop up, and the local fire fighters leader shouldn't be putting ice cream sales men in charge of the fire fighting.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Was there actually a fire, or was it imagined and/or fictitious?

Was the fire in Iraq more like a case of the Emperor's New Clothes that only some people could see?
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Using the fire analogy, the fire fighters shouldn't leave (be ordered to withdraw) before the fire is really out, and the local fire fighters can handle any other fires that might crop up, and the local fire fighters leader shouldn't be putting ice cream sales men in charge of the fire fighting.

Would a social projects coordinator with an Ivy League background do?
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Was there actually a fire, or was it imagined and/or fictitious?

Was the fire in Iraq more like a case of the Emperor's New Clothes that only some people could see?

Oh, there was a fire. The question is, whether it could have been met with cheaper and less intrusive instruments.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Life is never simple. We helped Stalin. Remember?
We helped Stalin because he was fighting Hitler. We are helping Iraq because they are fighting ISIS.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Oh, there was a fire. The question is, whether it could have been met with cheaper and less intrusive instruments.

Wouldn't that be a question that you'd have to ask the fire fighters?

'What's the best way to contain this fire and limit the killed and property damage?'
'You'd need a fire break here and here, we can't save the middle area, it's already too far gone'.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

That is simply not the case.

People forget that. After Iraq I the UN had found stockpiles of WMD that Saddam had not show as having been destroyed and had to be assumed to still be in possession. Why he did not want to show his hand did not become clear until the inner circle was interviewed after the invasion. But that is uncomfortable knowledge, if you want to attack the decision to remove the dictator. So it is usually evaded by the anti Bushies.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Wouldn't that be a question that you'd have to ask the fire fighters?

'What's the best way to contain this fire and limit the killed and property damage?'
'You'd need a fire break here and here, we can't save the middle area, it's already too far gone'.

That might be the case with the fire we started the sub thread on.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

We helped Stalin because he was fighting Hitler. We are helping Iraq because they are fighting ISIS.

That sounds okay.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Using the fire analogy, the fire fighters shouldn't leave (be ordered to withdraw) before the fire is really out, and the local fire fighters can handle any other fires that might crop up, and the local fire fighters leader shouldn't be putting ice cream sales men in charge of the fire fighting.

The firefighters shouldn't show up to the smouldering building and break the windows out!!!!!!
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

That is simply not the case.

No fly zones. Embargoes, sanctions, etc. Air strikes during the 1st war destroyed Iraq's chemical and nuclear facilities. And their biological weapons were in hidden locations and on a small scale.

They were no threat to anyone.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Using the fire analogy, the fire fighters shouldn't leave (be ordered to withdraw) before the fire is really out, and the local fire fighters can handle any other fires that might crop up, and the local fire fighters leader shouldn't be putting ice cream sales men in charge of the fire fighting.

Using the fire analogy, the US fought a small bush fire (that was doing giving off more smoke than heat) with flamethrowers and explosives. So now of course it's a wildfire, that some of you still want to fight with flamethrowers and explosives.

Just get the feck out of there. You have done enough, thank you very much from the arms sellers' part. The US is good at demolishing infrastructures but it has proved incompetant in what happens after - probably because a hawkish majority refuses to acknowledge that there might be other ways than the American one, futhermore when facing civilisations that are millenias old.

Destroying old stuff is the easy part of reconstruction.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

No fly zones. Embargoes, sanctions, etc. Air strikes during the 1st war destroyed Iraq's chemical and nuclear facilities. And their biological weapons were in hidden locations and on a small scale.

They were no threat to anyone.

You are correct. This was all about an inept president seeing an opportunity to secure a second term post 9/11. He couldn't find the culprit he'd chosen in Afghanistan and so he still needed a large number of dead Muslims in order to satisfy an outraged and vengeful US electorate. Doing nothing would have meant electoral suicide so Iraq became the perfect patsy having blotted its copybook already. Once he got his second term who cared that it was the wrong Muslims being killed and what happened to Iraq afterwards.
 
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