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Thread: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS[W:452]

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    How could Obama force the Iraqi's to sign a SOFA?
    In your link, thanks for that, a SOFA while not mentioned would be needed.
    People without a dog in the race love to volunteer US troops and treasure. Some of our fringe right would be perfectly content to have made Iraq another Germany or South Korea, simultaneously raising hell because the Baltimore school district is feeding children.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    SOFA's, as always, are regularly negotiated and Iraq was no different than any other country which is host to the US military.. Naturally this is a lot of political posturing in Iraq as much as there is in any democracy, but while everyone was aware of the problems which could result, everyone also wanted to save face and demonstrate, especially in Iraq, that they were dealing from strength. You can imagine the opposition to Malaki which was taking place, and the pressure he was under from the Ayatollahs.

    Even the US Secretary of Defense at the time, Robert Gates, predicted that perhaps several tens of thousands of American troops would remain as part of a residual force in Iraq.
    Perhaps you are right the Obama did not push hard enough, the one thing we do now for sure is no one in Iraq wanted to take the lead in Govt to ensure a SOFA was agreed upon.
    Panetta- well 2 differing stories, though I tend to go with his second version that Obama did not push enough.
    The other to consider is the American public had more than enough of Iraq and solders killed and injured.
    If my post offends you, I deeply Apple-O-Jize.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Bush would have told him to sign it or get the hell out.
    And it would have been signed off?
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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    People without a dog in the race love to volunteer US troops and treasure. Some of our fringe right would be perfectly content to have made Iraq another Germany or South Korea, simultaneously raising hell because the Baltimore school district is feeding children.
    Not me.
    Let them sort it out themselves. The ME, Iraq will separate into 2 or 3 states. If I am alive in 20 years I will see it, Syria is also a perfect case for the state to split along ethnic/religious lines.
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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Not me.
    Let them sort it out themselves. The ME, Iraq will separate into 2 or 3 states. If I am alive in 20 years I will see it, Syria is also a perfect case for the state to split along ethnic/religious lines.
    I know man, I didn't mean you on that one. And I believe you're probably right. Iraq was a Western creation to begin with, and three disagreeing factions were lumped together and told to get along. Ah, Western arrogance.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I know man, I didn't mean you on that one. And I believe you're probably right. Iraq was a Western creation to begin with, and three disagreeing factions were lumped together and told to get along. Ah, Western arrogance.
    They used a tried and proven way, divide & conquer. Place a minority in power, knowing they will be loyal to you. Look to Rwanda as a classic example. India another.
    Africa has the same problems. North/South Sudan finally split, yet there are territorial issues.
    Somlialand - another
    So expect more of that in Africa.
    If my post offends you, I deeply Apple-O-Jize.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Two things.

    Self determination/sovereignty
    Obama was elected by Americans to bring the troops home. It's our say so, not that of some Latin American resident of Canadian decent.
    Terrorism is an international problem and if you're going to start a war you should finish it. To cut and run has never been a part of the American tradition. I hope policies change after the next election and the democracies can organize under American leadership.

    As well, a President is elected to lead and do what is best for the country. If following the polls is all it takes then billions might be saved by not bothering with elections.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Perhaps you are right the Obama did not push hard enough, the one thing we do now for sure is no one in Iraq wanted to take the lead in Govt to ensure a SOFA was agreed upon.
    Panetta- well 2 differing stories, though I tend to go with his second version that Obama did not push enough.
    The other to consider is the American public had more than enough of Iraq and solders killed and injured.
    Removing the troops was disastrous for Iraq and humanity over the short term and unless the democracies change their attitudes quickly, it will be even more serious over the longer term.

    Right now Canadians, Australians and the Brits, great Allies all, are fighting in Iraq against ISIS. More should definitely become involved.,

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    They used a tried and proven way, divide & conquer. Place a minority in power, knowing they will be loyal to you. Look to Rwanda as a classic example. India another.
    Africa has the same problems. North/South Sudan finally split, yet there are territorial issues.
    Somlialand - another So expect more of that in Africa.
    Countries can change their boundaries peacefully, and it has been done, but at the moment this is being done along religious lines, with neither peace nor independence being the motive.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Perhaps you are right the Obama did not push hard enough, the one thing we do now for sure is no one in Iraq wanted to take the lead in Govt to ensure a SOFA was agreed upon.
    Panetta- well 2 differing stories, though I tend to go with his second version that Obama did not push enough.
    The other to consider is the American public had more than enough of Iraq and solders killed and injured.
    Obama didn't push at all because he had promised to remove the troops from Iraq. Most thought this was an election gimmick and not to be taken seriously. Romney, and most everyone else certainly thought so, as you can see from this debate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E7j7K3ksUg

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