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Thread: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS[W:452]

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    That agreement gave President Limpwrist convenient cover for doing what he had wanted to do all along anyway--to withdraw all U.S. forces from Iraq. If he had left the sort of residual force military experts recommended at the time, roughly half the force the U.S. has maintained in South Korea for sixty years, with a somewhat different composition, what we are seeing in Iraq never could have happened.

    A few thousand savages with AK's, RPG's, pickup trucks, captured Humvees, machine guns, and a tank or artillery piece here and there they liked to parade around, moving in desert areas with no cover, would have been very quickly destroyed by a highly trained U.S. force with plenty of aircraft, armor, and artillery. If they had ever tried to mass enough to attack with much strength, they would have been annihilated, just like that large convoy of vehicles that was trying to get back to Iraq from Kuwait City. Knowing that, they probably would never even have dared try to expand from Syria into Iraq.
    Obama said he would end the war in Iraq, bring the troops home, boasted when he did and then, when everything went south said, "Keep in mind, that wasn't a decision made by me. That was a decision made by the Iraqi government."

    After all those lives lost, and good people permanently injured, he couldn't negotiate a deal with an Iraqi politician who had received his position only because of the US Military? His acolytes still use this SOFA thing as a deal-breaker which, of course, is contrary to everything Obama said and promised during his election campaign.

    If he had deliberately tried to screw up the Middle East, and the War on Islamic terrorism, I don't know what he would have done differently. Luckily Egypt survived his machinations.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That may be the way it is but not necessarily the way it must remain. Staying the way it is at the moment, hoping it will someday end peacefully,
    goes against everything the Islamists are saying and everything that history has taught us.
    If a SOFA had been agreed upon, it was from what I have read, 3-5 K or 10 K Troops.
    Would it have addressed the chronic corruption of Al Maliki? I would say no
    Would it have halted the systemic murders of Sunni by Shia Militias? No

    Would the Iraqi Army have been better trained? No, as we have seen, billions down that rabbit hole.
    So let us take 10 K troops. Could they have slowed ISIL, yes but only to a certain.
    There would have been many Fallujah’s.
    Troops would/could have incurred high causality rates.
    Then the US is drawn in again, to a war in the ME, that the people want nothing to do with.
    Blood & treasure again down a sinkhole.
    They have to defend and fight for themselves.
    ISIL rose due to a number of reasons, 1 being Maliki’s treatment of Sunni minority.

    ME is not the top strategic area for the US. It is Asia, then Africa.
    If my post offends you, I deeply Apple-O-Jize.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    If a SOFA had been agreed upon, it was from what I have read, 3-5 K or 10 K Troops.
    Would it have addressed the chronic corruption of Al Maliki? I would say no
    Would it have halted the systemic murders of Sunni by Shia Militias? No

    Would the Iraqi Army have been better trained? No, as we have seen, billions down that rabbit hole.
    So let us take 10 K troops. Could they have slowed ISIL, yes but only to a certain.
    There would have been many Fallujah’s.
    Troops would/could have incurred high causality rates.
    Then the US is drawn in again, to a war in the ME, that the people want nothing to do with.
    Blood & treasure again down a sinkhole.
    They have to defend and fight for themselves.
    ISIL rose due to a number of reasons, 1 being Maliki’s treatment of Sunni minority.

    ME is not the top strategic area for the US. It is Asia, then Africa.
    The numbers were Obama's invention and were not taken seriously by anyone. So few troops would have jeopardized their lives.

    Here's what the military had to say.
    The New York Times revealed Dec. 4 that Pentagon planners were talking about "relabeling" of U.S. combat units as "training and support" units in a Dec. 4 story, but provided no details. Pentagon planners were projecting that as many as 70,000 U.S. troops would be maintained in Iraq "for a substantial time even beyond 2011".
    POLITICS: Despite Obama’s Vow, Combat Brigades Will Stay in Iraq | Inter Press Service

    They were right of course and Obama, for political reasons only, ignored them. He is now doing the same with Gitmo.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The numbers were Obama's invention and were not taken seriously by anyone. So few troops would have jeopardized their lives.

    Here's what the military had to say.

    POLITICS: Despite Obama’s Vow, Combat Brigades Will Stay in Iraq | Inter Press Service

    They were right of course and Obama, for political reasons only, ignored them. He is now doing the same with Gitmo.
    How could Obama force the Iraqi's to sign a SOFA?
    In your link, thanks for that, a SOFA while not mentioned would be needed.
    If my post offends you, I deeply Apple-O-Jize.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    How could Obama force the Iraqi's to sign a SOFA?
    In your link, thanks for that, a SOFA while not mentioned would be needed.
    Not so much force to sign, but how about bothering (leading) his administration to get the agreement? From Peneta's book, could have gotten the agreement, but didn't bother to
    Nancy Pelosi said: “We have to pass it, to find out what’s in it.” A Doctor called to a radio show & said: "That's the definition of a stool sample"
    "Under my plan of a cap-and-trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket," Barack Obama January 2008

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    How could Obama force the Iraqi's to sign a SOFA?
    In your link, thanks for that, a SOFA while not mentioned would be needed.
    SOFA's, as always, are regularly negotiated and Iraq was no different than any other country which is host to the US military.. Naturally this is a lot of political posturing in Iraq as much as there is in any democracy, but while everyone was aware of the problems which could result, everyone also wanted to save face and demonstrate, especially in Iraq, that they were dealing from strength. You can imagine the opposition to Malaki which was taking place, and the pressure he was under from the Ayatollahs.

    Even the US Secretary of Defense at the time, Robert Gates, predicted that perhaps several tens of thousands of American troops would remain as part of a residual force in Iraq.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The numbers were Obama's invention and were not taken seriously by anyone. So few troops would have jeopardized their lives.

    Here's what the military had to say.

    POLITICS: Despite Obama’s Vow, Combat Brigades Will Stay in Iraq | Inter Press Service

    They were right of course and Obama, for political reasons only, ignored them. He is now doing the same with Gitmo.
    The American left believes they are saving lives by surrendering and appeasing terrorists. Think about that.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    How could Obama force the Iraqi's to sign a SOFA?
    In your link, thanks for that, a SOFA while not mentioned would be needed.
    Bush would have told him to sign it or get the hell out.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Bush would have told him to sign it or get the hell out.
    Yes, I doubt Bush would have just walked away and given up after all those sacrifices made by the American people and their military. If Obama couldn't stand up to Maliki how could he confront any world leader?

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Yes, I doubt Bush would have just walked away and given up after all those sacrifices made by the American people and their military. If Obama couldn't stand up to Maliki how could he confront any world leader?
    Two things.

    Self determination/sovereignty
    Obama was elected by Americans to bring the troops home. It's our say so, not that of some Latin American resident of Canadian decent.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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