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Thread: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS[W:452]

  1. #431
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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    That is a lot of wording to admit you are wrong. Your claim that I exaggerated by a factor of 10 was an exaggeration on your part, and your revised claim is really no better.

    It isn't an exaggeration to go by numbers that have been claimed by reasonable sources. You have no idea if the numbers your are relying on are any more accurate than mine are, so trying to quantify what you see as an "exaggeration" is simply foolish.
    I am hardly "wrong" as my contention was with the exaggeration of the number of people that you could reasonably attribute as "murdered" by Saddam. You said it was 1 million. I said it was an exaggeration of 10 fold (which would be a number of closer to 100,000)

    So, we are back to arguing over the degree of exaggeration. Again, the simple fact is that Saddam murdered more like 200,000 of his citizens, not 1 million. So its a 5 fold bust on an overstatement of 800,000 instead of 900,000. This is getting to be silly at this point.

    The 1 million number is an exaggeration. The fact that Saddam was a tyrant we can both agree upon.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 06-03-15 at 04:13 PM.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So Iraq was unstable in 2002 and after the military left. We know that. Intervention> Which one?
    and in 2006-2007. are you even reading the links? as for 2002, Iraq was somewhat stable under that ****head Saddam, another problem the region should have solved for itself instead of waiting for a foreign power to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    A military presence would be required just as it was in Europe following WWII and just as it is in other parts of the world. That is the only way.
    good. you support an occupation. let's get into that, because i have a lot of questions. let's start with Syria and Iraq.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix
    so, first, we retake the region, right? how much of the region? the US would have to take Syria this time, too. that's a lot of territory, and a good chunk of it is an absolute disaster. i assume you support rebuilding it. how much will that cost? how many years of occupation?
    as we've already discussed, retaking the region is going to require a massive military force, and Russia is not going to stand idly by as we claim the oil. they will also not let us occupy Syria. how do you propose we deal with that part of the dynamic?

    which faction will control the regional government in the newly occupied Iraq / Syria? how will you placate the other factions? how will other countries in the region respond? how will other superpowers respond? how will emerging powers in other parts of the world respond?

    once we get this part covered, we can move on to other problems which make your proposed occupation a complete disaster.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I'd rather hear your argument in your words.
    what the **** do you think i'm doing right now? i'm making arguments and supporting them with links.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I can't see how doing nothing is an option. Historically that is always what people prefer but it has never boded well. Do you think the Jihadists will eventually calm down once they get enough territory?
    i think that the regional powers will finally be forced to respond once they can't use the US as a free military.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    There is no money left for 'nation building', or a roof, which is whty there are so many problems with the infrastructure. The country is mired in debt and about half the people are receiving government assistance of some sort, which they seem to want. The borders are insecure, the people as weak as any time in their history and Americans, under Obama, have become uncertain Allies.
    and you think a perpetual state of war is helping that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
    2. When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be damped. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength.

    3. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain.

    4. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue.

    5. Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.

    6. There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.
    just at least consider this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The larger problem is that most other democracies are in similar situations. We are all in debt and militarily weak, with a large portion of the populations demanding more government services while the governments borrow more so they can get elected, or re-elected.
    Best get a genuine leader next go around. Politicians always claim that every election is the most important in history but after the Obama debacle that will truly be the case.
    how much more are you personally willing to pay in taxes to fund a new invasion and occupation? just say "whatever it takes," and then we can continue. i have yet to hear that from a hawk. at least then i will know that you are serious.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    just every post of yours.
    Islamic doctrine does not = Muslims.

    Revealing the truth of the bigotry and deceit and jihad of Muslims to get rid of all unbelievers using any way possible doesn't mean that I hate all Muslims.

    The Prophet would kill me were He alive. And he ordered Muslims to accept my conversion to Islam or accept subjugation to Muslims or else kill me.

    But that doesn't necessarily mean I hate all Muslims even though all Muslims are obligated to follow His orders and emulate His example.

    And I CERTAINLY DON'T hate you.

    So, I ask that you reconsider your opinion.

    And even if you don't, I still won't hate you unless I knew you'd done something that was hateful.

  4. #434
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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I didn't go to the lowest estimate of civilian casualties, you liar. I went to the ONLY estimate of civilian casualties you provided, took their highest estimate of US caused casualties and multiplied it by a factor of 6.

    So tell me how claiming a death toll that is 600% higher than high estimate of YOUR provided source is going with the "lowest estimate"? Are you really trying to make that incredibly idiotic argument?
    Lol, must be hitting a nerve!

    This is my source, your sticking with the low estimate.

    Scientific surveys of Iraqi deaths resulting from the first four years of the Iraq War found that between 151,000 to over one million Iraqis died as a result of conflict during this time.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casua...f_the_Iraq_War
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #435
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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    D
    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    Islamic doctrine does not = Muslims.

    Revealing the truth of the bigotry and deceit and jihad of Muslims to get rid of all unbelievers using any way possible doesn't mean that I hate all Muslims.

    The Prophet would kill me were He alive. And he ordered Muslims to accept my conversion to Islam or accept subjugation to Muslims or else kill me.

    But that doesn't necessarily mean I hate all Muslims even though all Muslims are obligated to follow His orders and emulate His example.

    And I CERTAINLY DON'T hate you.

    So, I ask that you reconsider your opinion.

    And even if you don't, I still won't hate you unless I knew you'd done something that was hateful.
    I'm not a Muslim, so I shouldn't think I'm the focus of your hate, no.

    To the bolded. That you accuse all Muslims of practicing or supporting jihad and the conquest of the world is evidence of your hate, bigotry and danger.

    The last thing we need is you Christian fanatics sticking a stick in and stirring it up.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    D

    I'm not a Muslim, so I shouldn't think I'm the focus of your hate, no.

    To the bolded. That you accuse all Muslims of practicing or supporting jihad and the conquest of the world is evidence of your hate, bigotry and danger.

    The last thing we need is you Christian fanatics sticking a stick in and stirring it up.
    You remind me of a boy who hates taking a bath.

    Only in your case you hate becoming informed about the truth of Islam.

    Jump in. The water's fine.

    Once you became informed you would see that all Muslims ARE Jihadists.

    If they are not they are Apostates or Kafirs.

    Jihad is REQUIRED OF EVERY Muslim.

    And then you might actually learn what constitutes Jihad.

    And then the goal of Jihad.

    Once you become intelligently informed you will change your view of me.

    Not that it bothers me what you mistakenly believe about me.

    Islam has ordered all Muslims to get rid of all Kafirs.

    And they are doing exactly that under the radar for the most part.

    Staying quiet and compliant only guarantees we will be like the passengers on 9/11 who were told:

    'Stay quiet and you'll be OK,' Atta told passengers


    I oppose that.

    How else should I resist being conquered?

    Give me your suggestion?
    Last edited by Tazmanian Devil; 06-03-15 at 05:38 PM.

  7. #437
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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    Semantics.

    I'm not a medical professional (nor do I play one online) but in a medical emergency critically injured patients can often not be transported to a hospital for intensive life saving care until they are, first, stabilized on the scene.

    Iraq was stable enough for Obama to pull out but not stable enough to avoid the hell that GWB (whose popularity in a CNN poll today shows as higher than Obama's!) predicted would befall Iraq unless a supporting force was left there to prevent.




    George W. Bush was right about Iraq pullout - The Washington Post

    And you will note that the Washington Post has never been a big W supporter.
    Audacious man, screwed up by going into Iraq, then makes that comment. Playing to the Hawks.
    Do you remember this man?
    Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
    If my post offends you, I deeply Apple-O-Jize.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Audacious man, screwed up by going into Iraq, then makes that comment. Playing to the Hawks.
    Do you remember this man?
    Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
    Sure. I knew of him before he was made the head of the V.A. and screwed up.

    And you sound like you are afflicted with BDS.

    Bush Derangement Syndrome.

    Even the WashPo admitted Bush was right.

    George W. Bush was right about Iraq pullout - The Washington Post
    You won't.

    BDS.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    Sure. I knew of him before he was made the head of the V.A. and screwed up.

    And you sound like you are afflicted with BDS.

    Bush Derangement Syndrome.
    Is that all you know about him?
    If my post offends you, I deeply Apple-O-Jize.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Is that all you know about him?
    Why?

    Will I get a prize for knowing more about him than someone else here?



    What is your point?

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