Page 43 of 64 FirstFirst ... 33414243444553 ... LastLast
Results 421 to 430 of 638

Thread: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS[W:452]

  1. #421
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Last Seen
    07-19-15 @ 05:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    972

    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Your hatred of all Muslims is ugly.
    How could you honestly say I hate all Muslims?


  2. #422
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 09:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    How could you honestly say I hate all Muslims?

    just every post of yours.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #423
    Sage
    jmotivator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,325

    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Let's settle it.

    Scientific surveys of Iraqi deaths resulting from the first four years of the Iraq War found that between 151,000 to over one million Iraqis died as a result of conflict during this time. A later study, published in 2011, found that approximately 500,000 Iraqis had died as a result of the conflict since the invasion.

    Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Hah! You are trying to "settle" a dispute that only you are involved in.

    But I will play, I was quoting statistics of civilians killed by Saddam and his regime as reported by reliable sources.

    In your report the IBC did a study of the civilian deaths caused by both sides during the conflict and found that 7,419 civilians were killed during the major combat phase of the mission ending April 30, 2003. In total IBC tallies 120,816 total verified civilian deaths during the time the US forces were in Iraq. This is an under-count, but it is the only study provided by your source. How about I more than double it for sake of argument to 250,000 civilians killed in Iraq from 2003 to 2012 AND ignore the IBC audit of their 2005 figures that attributed only 37% of deaths to the US coalition operations. So I am taking the studies high estimate and multiplying that by 6 to get the US caused casualties, for the sake of argument. What point would you like to make with that figure?
    Last edited by jmotivator; 06-03-15 at 02:41 PM.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  4. #424
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Last Seen
    07-19-15 @ 05:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    972

    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i don't believe that George W. Bush had nefarious intent. in fact, quite the opposite. however, he believed that this was a winnable war long term. it was possible for an external force to depose Saddam Hussein. turning Iraq into a long term stable western style democracy using external force is not possible, though, especially when you don't take the history of sectarian / tribal conflicts into account. Afghanistan is a similar situation.
    I'm not a huge fan of playing the blame game, but I can forgive GWB's ignorance of Islam at the time because academic Jihadists had assured OUR academics that Jihad was merely a form of spiritual yoga.

    And when anyone asked anyone who SHOULD have known the truth about Islam no one would have had a clue that Muslims wouldn't be just like people anywhere else in the world where military force could and had been successful in accomplishing what Bush hoped to accomplish in Iraq.

    The reality we now understand is that Kafirs and Kafir governments and Kafir military forces in/on Islamic lands are absolutely taboo and those affiliated with them are seen as hated apostates and worthy of a death sentence.

    And that is why I NOW support a full and complete disengagement in the M.E. And all attempts to change their nature or governments will fail when we understand the deeply entrenched belief and allegiance the people there all have to Islamic doctrine and law and culture and history and their Prophet.
    Last edited by Tazmanian Devil; 06-03-15 at 02:44 PM.

  5. #425
    Global Moderator
    Moderator
    Helix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:32 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,299

    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Where was the instability in 2011?
    did you read the article i posted? if not, here's another.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/16/op...land.html?_r=0

    and one from 2007, when a lot more US troops were there :

    Iraq, 'Sinking Fast,' Is Ranked No. 2 on List of Unstable States


    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That's just wishful thinking. I wish the entire civilized world turned on ISIS but that is just as unlikely as your wish.
    What do you think might be worse than ISIS?
    in 2002, what did you think was worse than Al Qaeda? there's always some new and terrible enemy waiting to be born, and interventionism isn't stopping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    No doubt nuclear weapons in the hands of these religious fanatics could be worse but that appears inevitable anyway.
    Occupation has noot been tried sufficiently to make that judgment.
    so, answer the question : do you support long term occupation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    In 2011 Iraq was relatively stable
    see above links.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    and had the military stayed, as they strongly suggested, then we wouldn't have what we have today.
    "The region" is spreading throughout the world.
    I can understand your skepticism. The lies are coming from every direction.
    we can't afford to occupy vast regions of the Middle East, those who want us to are not willing to pay for it, and i have serious doubts that it would work anyway.

    bring our troops home, and let's put a better roof on the house. it's time that we nation build here instead.

  6. #426
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 09:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Q
    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Hah! You are trying to "settle" a dispute that only you are involved in.

    But I will play, I was quoting statistics of civilians killed by Saddam and his regime as reported by reliable sources.

    In your report the IBC did a study of the civilian deaths caused by both sides during the conflict and found that 7,419 civilians were killed during the major combat phase of the mission ending April 30, 2003. In total IBC tallies 120,816 total verified civilian deaths during the time the US forces were in Iraq. This is an under-count, but it is the only study provided by your source. How about I more than double it for sake of argument to 250,000 civilians killed in Iraq from 2003 to 2012 AND ignore the IBC audit of their 2005 figures that attributed only 37% of deaths to the US coalition operations. So I am taking the studies high estimate and multiplying that by 6 to get the US caused casualties, for the sake of argument. What point would you like to make with that figure?
    And there you have it, you proved my earliest point by going with the lowest estimate of civilian casualties, due to the U.S. War in Iraq, just as Upsideguy proved you sought out and quoted the highest estimates when looking for civilian casualties by Hussein.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  7. #427
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 07:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    did you read the article i posted? if not, here's another.http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/16/op...land.html?_r=0 and one from 2007, when a lot more US troops were there :Iraq, 'Sinking Fast,' Is Ranked No. 2 on List of Unstable States
    So Iraq was unstable in 2002 and after the military left. We know that.
    in 2002, what did you think was worse than Al Qaeda? there's always some new and terrible enemy waiting to be born, and interventionism isn't stopping it.
    Intervention> Which one?
    so, answer the question : do you support long term occupation?
    A military presence would be required just as it was in Europe following WWII and just as it is in other parts of the world. That is the only way.
    see above links.
    I'd rather hear your argument in your words.
    we can't afford to occupy vast regions of the Middle East, those who want us to are not willing to pay for it, and i have serious doubts that it would work anyway.
    I can't see how doing nothing is an option. Historically that is always what people prefer but it has never boded well. Do you think the Jihadists will eventually calm down once they get enough territory?
    bring our troops home, and let's put a better roof on the house. it's time that we nation build here instead.
    There is no money left for 'nation building', or a roof, which is whty there are so many problems with the infrastructure. The country is mired in debt and about half the people are receiving government assistance of some sort, which they seem to want. The borders are insecure, the people as weak as any time in their history and Americans, under Obama, have become uncertain Allies.
    The larger problem is that most other democracies are in similar situations. We are all in debt and militarily weak, with a large portion of the populations demanding more government services while the governments borrow more so they can get elected, or re-elected.
    Best get a genuine leader next go around. Politicians always claim that every election is the most important in history but after the Obama debacle that will truly be the case.

  8. #428
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 07:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    I'm not a huge fan of playing the blame game, but I can forgive GWB's ignorance of Islam at the time because academic Jihadists had assured OUR academics that Jihad was merely a form of spiritual yoga.

    And when anyone asked anyone who SHOULD have known the truth about Islam no one would have had a clue that Muslims wouldn't be just like people anywhere else in the world where military force could and had been successful in accomplishing what Bush hoped to accomplish in Iraq.

    The reality we now understand is that Kafirs and Kafir governments and Kafir military forces in/on Islamic lands are absolutely taboo and those affiliated with them are seen as hated apostates and worthy of a death sentence.

    And that is why I NOW support a full and complete disengagement in the M.E. And all attempts to change their nature or governments will fail when we understand the deeply entrenched belief and allegiance the people there all have to Islamic doctrine and law and culture and history and their Prophet.
    Yes, every time a democracy is bombed the first thing the leaders would do is claim Islam is a great and peaceful religion, that bombers weren't representative of islam, and then go to the mosque to pray. Meanwhile Muslims would concern themselves with an imaginary "backlash" that never happens.

    That was after the first few bombings anyway. That trend, like its many victims, may have died out. The 'backlash' fears continue.

  9. #429
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Last Seen
    07-19-15 @ 05:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    972

    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Yes, every time a democracy is bombed the first thing the leaders would do is claim Islam is a great and peaceful religion, that bombers weren't representative of islam, and then go to the mosque to pray. Meanwhile Muslims would concern themselves with an imaginary "backlash" that never happens.

    That was after the first few bombings anyway. That trend, like its many victims, may have died out. The 'backlash' fears continue.



    The Media and Jihad
    Apr 26 2015 | by Bill Warner



    Every time that there is a major jihad attack, the media responds in the same way. There is now a routine that the authorities tell us:

    Islam is the religion of peace
    Muslims that do jihad are extremists and not real Muslims
    Authorities must watch out for retaliation against Muslims
    All religions are the same. The Christians are as bad or worse
    We have not done enough to welcome Islam
    Concessions will reduce jihad; we need to give Islam more concessions.
    The Media and Jihad

  10. #430
    Sage
    jmotivator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,325

    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Q

    And there you have it, you proved my earliest point by going with the lowest estimate of civilian casualties, due to the U.S. War in Iraq, just as Upsideguy proved you sought out and quoted the highest estimates when looking for civilian casualties by Hussein.
    I didn't go to the lowest estimate of civilian casualties, you liar. I went to the ONLY estimate of civilian casualties you provided, took their highest estimate of US caused casualties and multiplied it by a factor of 6.

    So tell me how claiming a death toll that is 600% higher than high estimate of YOUR provided source is going with the "lowest estimate"? Are you really trying to make that incredibly idiotic argument?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

Page 43 of 64 FirstFirst ... 33414243444553 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •