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Thread: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS[W:452]

  1. #391
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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Thank you for FINALLY defending your number. As weak as the defense was, the effort is duly noted.

    the Kurds reported 182,000 deaths in the Al-Anfal campaign. Most third party sources say the number is 50-100,000. So, just taking the Kurd report is erring on the side of exaggeration.

    The 1991 crackdown resulted in 80 to 230,000 deaths. You declaring this 280,000 is also airing on the side of exaggeration.

    Finally, and most egregious, you are calling the estimated 500,000 that died as a result of sanctions an act of overt brutality by Sadaam. That is a ridiculous stretch. The sanctions were put on Iraq by the US and others, designed to squeeze the economy. While he certainly is responsible, its not the same thing as overt brutality. Saddam did not KILL or order the deaths of the 500,000. Instead, his policies merely allowed that to happen. Frankly, the coalition nations are also culpable in these deaths.

    If you want to hold a leader responsible for deaths under their watch and call it an autrocity, then we could make a laundry list of deaths that resulted in negligence of US policy and declare every US president an oppressive tyrant, but that is a bit absurd, just like calling the deaths if Iraqi citizens under the period of sanction a murder by Saddam. Sorry, you don't get to add that to the ledger....

    So, all in, you have at least showed us you were not pulling numbers out of your A, you are just working with numbers that smell as if they were from the A.....

    So, lets get back to your original statement that I objected to....



    Net, net.... telling us Saddam MURDERED 1 million of his people is indeed an exaggeration.... It appears that is off by somewhere between 2.5 and 5 fold (it looks like the number of 130,000 to 380,000 is much closer to the real number). If you said he was responsible for 1 million deaths, you might be on more solid ground.

    No question he was a tyrant and a bad guy. The discussion of whether his removal was worth between $2 and $6, the lives of 4,500 US soldiers (not to mention the forever altered lives of those that served, but did not die) and the lives of 100-200,000 Iraq citizens (nothing like killing 200,000 Iraq citizens to overthrow a guy that killed 200,000 Iraqi citizens), but that is another discussion...

    That is a lot of wording to admit you are wrong. Your claim that I exaggerated by a factor of 10 was an exaggeration on your part, and your revised claim is really no better.

    It isn't an exaggeration to go by numbers that have been claimed by reasonable sources. You have no idea if the numbers your are relying on are any more accurate than mine are, so trying to quantify what you see as an "exaggeration" is simply foolish.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  2. #392
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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    That is a lot of wording to admit you are wrong. Your claim that I exaggerated by a factor of 10 was an exaggeration on your part, and your revised claim is really no better.

    It isn't an exaggeration to go by numbers that have been claimed by reasonable sources. You have no idea if the numbers your are relying on are any more accurate than mine are, so trying to quantify what you see as an "exaggeration" is simply foolish.
    Still, you take the high numbers when pointing to casualties of Hussein's and the low numbers when pointing at the casualties inflicted by the U.S.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Still, you take the high numbers when pointing to casualties of Hussein's and the low numbers when pointing at the casualties inflicted by the U.S.
    Where have I quoted US casualties?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Where have I quoted US casualties?
    Previous threads on the topic. It will come up again.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Previous threads on the topic. It will come up again.
    [citation needed]
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    [citation needed]
    Why not hash the numbers out again now, it's quicker. Upsideguy already smacked you around with them. It's a wash. I love how you conservatives get all twisted into knots over casualties, that is until it's the U.S. racking them up, then suddenly it's the cost of business, got to break a few eggs to make an omelet, and the other squirrelly things you all say to diminish its effects.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Why not hash the numbers out again now, it's quicker. Upsideguy already smacked you around with them. It's a wash. I love how you conservatives get all twisted into knots over casualties, that is until it's the U.S. racking them up, then suddenly it's the cost of business, got to break a few eggs to make an omelet, and the other squirrelly things you all say to diminish its effects.
    You keep making unfounded claims about what I do and do not believe. If you have evidence to back up your claim the post it, otherwise you are just a liar talking out of your ass.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    A secular leader that had zero tolerance for the religious fighting between Islamic extremists, As opposed to the Islamic State, HELL YES, not you?
    So Saddam Hussein has now been re-invented as a good and benevolent leader responsive to all versions of Islam?

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    You keep making unfounded claims about what I do and do not believe. If you have evidence to back up your claim the post it, otherwise you are just a liar talking out of your ass.
    Let's settle it.

    Scientific surveys of Iraqi deaths resulting from the first four years of the Iraq War found that between 151,000 to over one million Iraqis died as a result of conflict during this time. A later study, published in 2011, found that approximately 500,000 Iraqis had died as a result of the conflict since the invasion.

    Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Afflicted?? You've not been around long so I'll let you off the hook for not recognizing it, But the hatred of Obama by the fringe right here is such that they wouldn't trust him if he told them what time it is. So quoting him once, as "truth" just because it can then be used to further beat him up is disingenuous!
    Your characterization and appraisal of Conservatives or those you call, "the fringe right" is incorrect.

    And your entire premise rests on that flawed foundation.

    We would absolutely trust Obama when he says things which we use our God given senses to know he is being truthful about.

    Your mental processes are on display.

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