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Thread: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS[W:452]

  1. #31
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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    Why did you know that we didn't need to invade but most in Congress including Hillary, Biden, and Kerry didn't? The Middle East has been causing problems for years and we had a chance to take out it's worst dictator and turn it into a democracy. It hasn't taken like we would've hoped so far but my point is there are other cases in history where it's taken time, including a really long time for African Americans, to reap the benefits that those who shed their blood fought for. I'm not willing to call Iraq a total loss yet.
    What have we gained by invading? How famous for their wisdom are members of congress?

    What have we lost by invading?

    We were deceived.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    What have we gained by invading? How famous for their wisdom are members of congress?

    What have we lost by invading?

    We were deceived.
    Who deceived us?

    And we gained the right for citizens of Iraq to vote, maybe they'll eventually get their act together, even though it's not looking good now.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    So we should have continued spending our blood and ($10B worth monthly of) treasure to keep propping up the regime there? Even if the whole Middle East melts down, does that really affect us? Remember, we're now the world's largest producer of oil and gas.

    What's sad is that there's a whole swath of Americans - conservatives - who seem to think that sending in our troops is the solution to everything, as if that would somehow make differences in religious dogma go away.
    After leading in the region for so many years, sure a stumble to allow ISIS to raise, wouldn't it be the height of irresponsibility to now just walk away?

    After all Pottery Barn rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, true?

    How much harsher the judgement and distrustful the allies if the US just walks away? Can we really afford that?
    Nancy Pelosi said: “We have to pass it, to find out what’s in it.” A Doctor called to a radio show & said: "That's the definition of a stool sample"
    "Under my plan of a cap-and-trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket," Barack Obama January 2008

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    Who deceived us?

    And we gained the right for citizens of Iraq to vote, maybe they'll eventually get their act together, even though it's not looking good now.
    The citizens of Iran vote, even the women, which you can't say about Saudi Arabia. Does that make Iran a vibrant democracy, hmm?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    After leading in the region for so many years, sure a stumble to allow ISIS to raise, wouldn't it be the height of irresponsibility to now just walk away?

    After all Pottery Barn rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, true?

    How much harsher the judgement and distrustful the allies if the US just walks away? Can we really afford that?
    You didn't walk away, you were asked to leave.
    Don't work out, work in.

    Never eat anything that comes in a bucket.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The citizens of Iran vote, even the women, which you can't say about Saudi Arabia. Does that make Iran a vibrant democracy, hmm?
    And the voting is fair in Iran too, in case you didn't know.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    And the voting is fair in Iran too, in case you didn't know.
    The point being neither Iraq nor Iran are thriving democracies.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    You didn't walk away, you were asked to leave.
    Even so, abandoning the leadership in the region is by far not the way to improve the situation.
    Nancy Pelosi said: “We have to pass it, to find out what’s in it.” A Doctor called to a radio show & said: "That's the definition of a stool sample"
    "Under my plan of a cap-and-trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket," Barack Obama January 2008

  9. #39
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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Parker View Post
    Carter saying Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' sparks more criticism, concern about Obama plan | Fox News

    Here we go again with our desperate attempts to train those who will shoot at our backs once they will be left alone.

    They say you can take a horse to the water, but you cannot make him drink. Bush Jr. invaded the wrong country (as if he could invade the right one). Iraqis understand they will die from ISIS attacks, but many of them got addicted to ISIS propaganda. So both facts are against US there - the fact Iraqis are muslims makes them sympathize isis and they never stopped treating us as invaders so I'm not surprised they don't want to fight.

    It seems Pentagon's idea was to create non-US troops to fight ISIS and to oppose terrorists without getting involved to a direct confrontation.

    So, does it mean we spend money on training future terrorists?
    This is why we should have taken care of it ourselves instead of paying to train someone else to do it.

    First mistake was that we disbanded their military when we initially invaded.

    Second mistake was that we did not prepare for the ensuing civil conflict once Saddam's government was defeated. We did not send in enough troops to secure Iraq. We should have had at a minimum 250k boots on the ground.

    Third mistake was that we did not stay long enough to allow the people time to choose what kind of government they wanted in power. We put in a provisional government temporarily, and should have stayed long enough (for several voting cycles) in order for the people to get the government they way they wanted it. Now that we are gone, the people have no control over the government because the concept of a government voted in by the people is not a concept that has been around long enough there to set in. So now we are going to see a very corrupt and directionless government which will eventually revert back to a dictatorship. We should still be in Iraq right now with a large amount of forces. Would it have costed a lot of money, sure. But I think, in the long run, it would have been cheaper then doing what we are doing now and playing this whole war of attrition game with the insurgency. Which is a war we can not possibly win. It costs us several million $ to put a warhead on a forehead and kill a few guys. It costs them a few $'s to blow a truck bomb up in the middle of a market, police station or military checkpoint. A war of attrition, is a war they will win. We would have needed to stay in Iraq for at least 20-30 years. Of course, we would be slowly drawing down the whole time just like we did in Japan and S.Korea after WW2 and the Korean war. If we had followed the blueprint of WW2 in Asia and how we handled building successful governments there, Iraq would be on its way to becoming the South Korea, or Japan of the Middle East.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Yep yep, you break it you own it.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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