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Thread: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS[W:452]

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    We'll then, I don't know where you found your list at but by points two and four, the US has no sovereignty. Along with quite a few other countries you likely still consider sovereign, lol.
    Well, if any country feels they can make that case, then they have the right to invade us.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Well, if any country feels they can make that case, then they have the right to invade us.
    Let them try.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Let them try.
    If I were to try and invade the US, I would probably come thru Canada, and I would come thru with the backing of the entire world. Because that is the only way you could defeat the US on its own soil.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    If I were to try and invade the US, I would probably come thru Canada, and I would come thru with the backing of the entire world. Because that is the only way you could defeat the US on its own soil.
    It would take the whole world and it probably still wouldn't work. We are just too big and we are fairly isolated (north America). It woudn't even get through the military. Dont forget how much of our military is deployed outside the US.

    And even if an invasion worked, an American insurgency would exhaust any illusions. Countries this big don't collapse from outside, they collapse from within.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    If I were to try and invade the US, I would probably come thru Canada, and I would come thru with the backing of the entire world. Because that is the only way you could defeat the US on its own soil.
    You are unfamiliar with how great nations, cultures and civilizations implode or corrode from within, I take it.

    That is the method being used by Jihadists.

    The Five Stages of Islam

    Forget the Five Pillars of Islam. It is the Five Stages of Islam that threaten the fundamental freedoms of Western Democracy. Freedoms which include freedom of thought, expression, and association and the crucial derived right of freedom of the press. We should never forget that "Islam" means submission -- the opposite of self-determination and Enlightenment values.

    Six years ago Dr. Peter Hammond published a remarkable book which included a statistical study of the correlation between Muslim to non-Muslim population ratios and the transition from conciliatory Islam to fascist Islam. The stages are the same in 2011 but the demographics have changed to show an alarming progression. Many European nations and the U.S. are on the cusp of moving to a higher bracket. The demographics change but the story is the same. First comes the taqiyya and the kitman; then comes the Sword of Islam. Imam Rauf, the Ground Zero Mosque promoter, is the current master of taqiyya. He has gulled everyone from Bloomberg to Maureen Dowd of the NYT -- who fanaticizes over male Muslims. Expect doppelgangers of Khomeini for stage 5 and Islamic PEACE at last.

    Stage 1. Establish a Beachhead

    Population density 2% (US, Australia, Canada).


    Muslims are conciliatory, deferential but request harmless special treatment (foot bath facilities, removal/elimination of that which is offensive to delicate Muslim sensibilities - like walking dogs near Mosques).

    Stage 2. Establish Outposts

    Population density 2% - 5% (UK, Germany, Denmark).


    At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. A recent example is that of Sheikh Abdullah el-Faisal who is back in Jamaica after being kicked out of the UK. Sound harmless? Read on:

    The dispatch, dated February 2010, warns that that Jamaica could be fertile ground for jihadists because of its underground drug economy, marginalized youth, insufficient security and gang networks in U.S. and British prisons.


    Stage 3. Establish Sectional Control of Major Cities.

    Population density 5% - 10% (France, Sweden, Netherlands).


    First comes the demand for halal food in supermarkets, and the blocking of streets for prayers; then comes the demand for self rule (within their ghettos) under Sharia. When Muslims approach 10% of the population the demands turn to lawlessness. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any criticism of Islam results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam. In France which may be over the 10% range, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrassas. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death.

    Stage 4. Establish Regional Control.

    Population density 20% - 50% (Europe 2020?).


    After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues.

    Stage 5. Total Control, Brutal Suppression, and Dhimmitude.

    Population density > 50%.


    Unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels. As Muslim population levels increase and all infidels cower in submission there will peace at last. Dar al-Islam is achieved and everyone lives under Sharia and the Koran is the only word.


    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/...#ixzz3bfoDltgW
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook
    Last edited by Tazmanian Devil; 05-30-15 at 08:05 PM.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    I am heartened by your reply.

    Thank you!

    I get tired of the same old recitation of LW talking points or RW less than inspired justifications for the war.

    You are a thinking man. And I appreciate your post.

    But, in light of current events, which has prompted many intellectual excursions into the hazy and as yet unwrit future, I can imagine an unexpected benefit from the invasion which may make the whole thing look like a bargain in the long run.

    ISIS.

    ISIS has shown us that when push comes to shove Middle Eastern Muslims place a greater
    value and importance on Islamic doctrine than on Democracy.

    The two are at odds.

    And in the face of the TRUEST followers and warriors of Mohammed we see that those who could and initially do sign up to fight for their own freedom and Democracy and man's law (i.e. the Iraqi military) flee Allah's Mujaheddin.

    Sometime down the line that knowledge could be priceless.

    When the SHTF M.E. Muslims will side with Islam before they would side with Democracy.
    Saddam Hussein could have done absolutely NOTHING to prevent Bush from engaging in regime change. That train had left long before. History will be very hard on George W Bush, who left office humiliated with dismal approval ratings! For all the GOP could throw at Clinton, he still grabbed his coat and hat, stepped out of the W H on January 20, 2001 with a grin from ear to ear as he read the polls which favored him in a 66% approval rating. What's that, better than double dubyas?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    You are unfamiliar with how great nations, cultures and civilizations implode or corrode from within, I take it.

    That is the method being used by Jihadists.

    The Five Stages of Islam

    Forget the Five Pillars of Islam. It is the Five Stages of Islam that threaten the fundamental freedoms of Western Democracy. Freedoms which include freedom of thought, expression, and association and the crucial derived right of freedom of the press. We should never forget that "Islam" means submission -- the opposite of self-determination and Enlightenment values.

    Six years ago Dr. Peter Hammond published a remarkable book which included a statistical study of the correlation between Muslim to non-Muslim population ratios and the transition from conciliatory Islam to fascist Islam. The stages are the same in 2011 but the demographics have changed to show an alarming progression. Many European nations and the U.S. are on the cusp of moving to a higher bracket. The demographics change but the story is the same. First comes the taqiyya and the kitman; then comes the Sword of Islam. Imam Rauf, the Ground Zero Mosque promoter, is the current master of taqiyya. He has gulled everyone from Bloomberg to Maureen Dowd of the NYT -- who fanaticizes over male Muslims. Expect doppelgangers of Khomeini for stage 5 and Islamic PEACE at last.

    Stage 1. Establish a Beachhead

    Population density 2% (US, Australia, Canada).

    Muslims are conciliatory, deferential but request harmless special treatment (foot bath facilities, removal/elimination of that which is offensive to delicate Muslim sensibilities - like walking dogs near Mosques).

    Stage 2. Establish Outposts

    Population density 2% - 5% (UK, Germany, Denmark).

    At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. A recent example is that of Sheikh Abdullah el-Faisal who is back in Jamaica after being kicked out of the UK. Sound harmless? Read on:

    The dispatch, dated February 2010, warns that that Jamaica could be fertile ground for jihadists because of its underground drug economy, marginalized youth, insufficient security and gang networks in U.S. and British prisons.


    Stage 3. Establish Sectional Control of Major Cities.

    Population density 5% - 10% (France, Sweden, Netherlands).

    First comes the demand for halal food in supermarkets, and the blocking of streets for prayers; then comes the demand for self rule (within their ghettos) under Sharia. When Muslims approach 10% of the population the demands turn to lawlessness. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any criticism of Islam results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam. In France which may be over the 10% range, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrassas. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death.

    Stage 4. Establish Regional Control.

    Population density 20% - 50% (Europe 2020?).

    After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues.

    Stage 5. Total Control, Brutal Suppression, and Dhimmitude.

    Population density > 50%.

    Unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels. As Muslim population levels increase and all infidels cower in submission there will peace at last. Dar al-Islam is achieved and everyone lives under Sharia and the Koran is the only word.


    Read more: Articles: The Five Stages of Islam
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

    Its not Islam that will destroy America. In fact, those who are pushing the notion that Islam will destroy America are diverting their attention from what will destroy America. Marxism, Socialism which are packaged in Feminism which I believe is being implemented from the old USSR guard.

    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Its not Islam that will destroy America. In fact, those who are pushing the notion that Islam will destroy America are diverting their attention from what will destroy America. Marxism, Socialism which are packaged in Feminism which I believe is being implemented from the old USSR guard.

    This is well known amongst those who pay attention. However, Islam and Marxism have their own end goals. At times they will cooperate, at other times not.

    The biggest threat in the US is currently marxism. Worldwide its less clear. In either case-the west and western ideals are under assault.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Its not Islam that will destroy America. In fact, those who are pushing the notion that Islam will destroy America are diverting their attention from what will destroy America. Marxism, Socialism which are packaged in Feminism which I believe is being implemented from the old USSR guard.

    It isn't either/or.

    They and other threats are currently assaulting us and we must be up to challenge them all.

    Like a good computer anti virus suite.

    It has to protect you from ALL threats.

    Not just one, or even most of them.

    ALL.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Saddam Hussein could have done absolutely NOTHING to prevent Bush from engaging in regime change. That train had left long before. History will be very hard on George W Bush, who left office humiliated with dismal approval ratings! For all the GOP could throw at Clinton, he still grabbed his coat and hat, stepped out of the W H on January 20, 2001 with a grin from ear to ear as he read the polls which favored him in a 66% approval rating. What's that, better than double dubyas?
    Check this out.

    CBS News 60 Minutes segment with Saddam's FBI interrogator, George Piro will fill in some blanks for you.
    Interrogator Shares Saddam's Confessions

    Tells 60 Minutes Former Iraqi Dictator Didn't Expect U.S. Invasion

    2008 Jan 24
    Correspondent CBSNews

    For a man who drew America into two wars and countless military engagements, we never knew what Saddam Hussein was thinking. But you are going to hear more than has ever been revealed before.

    After his capture, Saddam met every day with one man, an American he knew as "Mr. George." George is FBI agent George Piro, who was the front man for a team of FBI and CIA analysts who were trying to answer some of the great mysteries of recent history. What happened to the weapons of mass destruction? Was Saddam in league with al Qaeda? Why did he choose war with the United States?

    As correspondent Scott Pelley reports, Piro is the man who came to know Saddam better than anyone, as they sat face to face in a windowless room.


    "I purposely put his back against the wall. And then mine against the door, psychologically to tell him that his back was against the wall in the interview room. And that I stood between him and the door, psychologically. Between him whether it's to go back to his cell, freedom, whatever he was projecting to be outside of that door. I was kind of that psychological barrier between him and the door," Piro recalls.

    Just weeks after being pulled from a hole in the ground by U.S. Special Forces after a nine-month manhunt, Saddam Hussein was placed in the hands of George Piro.

    Piro says he called the former dictator "Mr. Saddam," and that Hussein began to call the agent "Mr. George." "Over time though, in private, it changed to just Saddam and George," Piro remembers.

    Asked if Hussein ever knew who Piro really was, the agent says, "No."

    Piro is an American success story. Born in Lebanon, his family escaped the civil war there and moved to the States when he was 12. After enlisting in the Air Force, Piro became a policeman in California. He went to night school to earn the college degree required to apply to the FBI. Piro had been an agent only five years at the time, but was chosen for this assignment for his native Arabic and because it was thought Saddam would identify with a young Arab man on his way up.

    Piro's first trick was to make himself appear to be much more powerful than he was. "He didn't know I worked for the FBI, he didn't know I was a field agent," Piro explains.

    "If he found out you were a field agent for the FBI, what do you think his reaction would have been?" Pelley asks.

    "I think initially he would have been angry. He would feel that I was way beneath him, and would not respond well to the interrogation. Or even to me," Piro says.

    "I wonder who did Saddam think you were answering to?" Pelley asks.

    "I think he thought, and actually on a couple of occasions talked around the issue that I was directly answering to the president," Piro says.

    Piro says Saddam thought "Mr. George" was in direct contact with President Bush, but that in reality he never was.
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    Copyright 2008 CBS. All rights reserved.

    Interrogator Shares Saddam's Confessions - CBS News
    Last edited by Tazmanian Devil; 05-30-15 at 08:24 PM.

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