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Thread: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS[W:452]

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    To use a metaphor, African Killer Bees have been migrating northward from South America for decades.

    If left alone they would continue their migration until they are stopped by colder temperatures (one hopes they don't evolve warm winter yellow jackets!).

    But any time any living thing gets near their hive they swarm and attack.

    Why?

    It's their nature. It's what they do.

    Now as for the increase in terrorism.

    All Muslims are Jihadists. They are commanded by Islamic doctrine to perform jihad in one of the four forms of it. Three being non violent. The other, Jihad by the Sword. But all Jihad is ultimately to help bring about the Prophet's command to all Muslims to help achieve mastery of mankind.

    And so Jihadists are continually doing their individual Jihad in their own way in all four forms and in words and deeds large and small. Every day, 24/7 around the world.

    They are commanded by Islamic doctrine to perform their acts of jihad in order to conquer the world for Allah and that is what they do.

    But whenever Infidels, or Kafirs (any non Muslim is a Kafir) land troops on Islamic lands, no matter that in the case of Desert Storm (in 1990-91) US and Coalition troops were stationed in Saudi Arabia as guests of the sovereign government (the Royal Saudi family), it was an offense to Islam and so the devout Jihadis around the world rose up to try to expel not only the Kafirs but also to expel the Royal family.

    That is what devoted Muslims do.

    Do we bow to Islamic law?

    Do we ignore the Saudi government in favor of religious zealots who want us to convert, become conquered and captives or dead ANYWAY?

    It's a complicated matter if you are trying to keep the peace and protect your allies and vital interests.

    I will conclude this post with a teaser.

    FBI interrogator George Piro said in a CBS 60 Minutes interview that Saddam Hussein confessed to him, after many months of chats and time spent together after he was captured from the spider hole, that he had intentionally bluffed about having WMD's to keep the dreaded Iranians from re-invading Iraq after their bloody war which took more than a million lives combined over ten years of fighting.

    And Saddam was more than bluffing about his willingness to destroy Israel if he could. (He'd launched dozens of SCUD missiles into Israel during Desert Storm.)

    What was Israel to do when they truly did not know if a WMD 'Sword of Damocles' was hanging over their necks which could wipe them off the map?

    What they would do is what they have ALWAYS done when threatened by their hostile neighbors. They eliminate that threat proactively.

    But you know how hated Israel is by Muslims.

    So what would the Muslim world have done if Israel had launched hundreds of air strikes searching for WMDS and bombing command and control centers without any outward provocation from Iraq to justify their air strikes and/or ground invasion?

    That is for another post.

    Sorry to ramble.

    TD
    Some suggested reading.

    Iraq war: the greatest intelligence failure in living memory - Telegraph
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  2. #292
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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Distraction,

    The topic is about Iraqi's loosing will to fight, not USA's dark page in history.
    Pages!!!! DDD
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Pages!!!! DDD
    A paragraph with 3 sentences in my book.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Nothing like a little exaggeration to help sell an argument. I think you are off by more than 10 fold on your data.... only Heritage Foundations forecast on the budgetary effect of the Bush tax cuts tops this in terms of estimate busts.

    The War Crimes of Iraq's Saddam Hussein
    Sooooo... in trying to show that my numbers are off by a factor of 10 you post an "About News" article that does quantify many of the atrocities listed and appears to stop in 1991?

    Yeah, not thick enough.

    Even more telling is that the one quantifiable atrocity in that article credited Saddam with slaughtering 182,000 Kurds during the al-Anfal campaign which is, if my math is correct, more that the "factor of 10" you claim in your post. Talk about exaggeration to sell an argument!
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    A paragraph with 3 sentences in my book.
    That's cool, I wouldn't hold it against you for not being up to speed on American history and politics.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Thank you for that.

    From the cited source.

    "Both said that Iraq had no active WMD. Both were ignored or dismissed."

    An analogy.

    Why did (do) Liberal Americans ignore or dismiss the advice of Conservatives about Barack Obama?

    It's clear (in retrospect) that they were (are) right.

    I'd say it's because they had no way of verifying the validity of the advice at the time.

    And that right there is the crux of the matter of Saddam's WMD's.

    There was no way the reports could be confirmed as true or dismissed as B.S.

    And in the absence of believable intel the assumption HAD to be that he DID have them and that Israel WAS possibly at existential risk.

    And please remember that Saddam was given two or three weeks to either open up to COMPLETELY UNFETTERED weapons inspections OR to find exile in a welcoming country and with him could go all of his family, wives, mistresses and his ill gotten loot from government coffers.

    He refused.

    Game on.
    Last edited by Tazmanian Devil; 05-29-15 at 12:33 PM.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    Thank you for that.

    From the cited source.

    "Both said that Iraq had no active WMD. Both were ignored or dismissed."

    An analogy.

    Why did (do) Liberal Americans ignore or dismiss the advice of Conservatives about Barack Obama?

    It's clear that they were (are) right.

    I'd say it's because they had no way of verifying the validity of the advice at the time.

    And that right there is the crux of the matter of Saddam's WMD's.

    There was no way the reports could be confirmed as true or dismissed as B.S.

    And in the absence of believable intel the assumption HAD to be that he DID have them and that Israel WAS possibly at existential risk.

    And please remember that Saddam was given two or three weeks to either open up to COMPLETELY UNFETTERED weapons inspections OR to find exile in a welcoming country and with him could go all of his family, wives, mistresses and his ill gotten loot from government coffers.

    He refused.

    Game on.
    Throw some evidence up on Obama and lets see if I dismiss it!

    I don't defend the liberals that supported Bush's war. The material available to call it into question was there all along. FBI field agents sending memos to JEH building headquarters about suspicious behavior amongst individuals of Middle Eastern decent, were ignored. Warnings of men of Middle Eastern decent taking flight lessons was red flagged and also dismissed. Hans Blix said he was receiving access to every designated sight, no WMD's. Accussed Bush of ignoring the facts in favor of his policy. Downing Street acknowledgment that Bush was arranging the intelligence around the policy. Bush's comments of political capital when being a war time president, and how he wouldn't squander it in Iraq as his father had. Joe Wilson calling the president a liar in an editorial in the NYTimes, having confirmed that Hussein hadn't purchased or attempted to purchase yellow cake from Niger. False claims connecting Hussein with AQ/OBL, hyperbolic warnings to gin up fear and thereby support by asking, "do we have to wait for the smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud over a US city. The FBI's claim that Bush was misrepresenting the intelligence they had given him to the American public. Powell's thoroughly unconvincing speech to the UN, Curveball, etc., etc., etc..
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Throw some evidence up on Obama and lets see if I dismiss it!

    I don't defend the liberals that supported Bush's war. The material available to call it into question was there all along. FBI field agents sending memos to JEH building headquarters about suspicious behavior amongst individuals of Middle Eastern decent, were ignored. Warnings of men of Middle Eastern decent taking flight lessons was red flagged and also dismissed.

    Hans Blix said he was receiving access to every designated sight, no WMD's. Accussed Bush of ignoring the facts in favor of his policy. Downing Street acknowledgment that Bush was arranging the intelligence around the policy. Bush's comments of political capital when being a war time president, and how he wouldn't squander it in Iraq as his father had.

    Joe Wilson calling the president a liar in an editorial in the NYTimes, having confirmed that Hussein hadn't purchased or attempted to purchase yellow cake from Niger.

    False claims connecting Hussein with AQ/OBL, hyperbolic warnings to gin up fear and thereby support by asking, "do we have to wait for the smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud over a US city.

    The FBI's claim that Bush was misrepresenting the intelligence they had given him to the American public. Powell's thoroughly unconvincing speech to the UN, Curveball, etc., etc., etc..

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    Bob Woodward and Fox News. The premier authorities, lol. Sorry dude. 16 intelligence services vs. Fox/Woodward.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Bob Woodward and Fox News. The premier authorities, lol. Sorry dude. 16 intelligence services vs. Fox/Woodward.
    Why not directly quote those 16 intelligence sources which say Bush lied?

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