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Thread: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS[W:452]

  1. #251
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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Nonsense AQ and the Hussein regime were in fact the bitterest of enemies and never had any such ties. These stories were fabrications



    Given no evidence of such contacts has ever emerged in the subsequent decade I think we can put these down to the Whitehouse disinformation machine
    That they were'the bitterest of enemies' might be somewhat stretching the reality of the situation. Saddam did not like them though. That is quite right. That was why the contacts that had in fact taken place did not mean alliance and the theme was let drop. You must remember that.

    I am not going to look up the contacts for you, seeing that it is not very important, having not been named as casus belli.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    So why were your armed forces not informed ? They clearly viewed the whole Iraq operation as retribution for 9/11 judging by the chalked messages on their bombs and shells as did the vast majority of your civilians. This deception was deliberately fostered by the Bush administration in order to facilitate the conflict
    by agreeing with the CIA and, the Clinton administration, and every intelligence agency in the western world? that's some conspiracy you came up with there. it makes zero sense, but you aren't the first.
    and how did Bush get Colin Powell to lie. I mean, if he's such a moron(better SATs than Obama by the way)

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    That they were'the bitterest of enemies' might be somewhat stretching the reality of the situation.
    One was a secular regime the other a rabid fundamentalist group so there could be no 'common ground' given the threat they posed to one another


    Saddam did not like them though. That is quite right. That was why the contacts that had in fact taken place did not mean alliance and the theme was let drop. You must remember that.
    There never were any such contacts . They were a lie dreamt up in Washington to help facilitate the conflict and were used to bring the public and military to the perception of this (false) casus belli they required

    I am not going to look up the contacts for you, seeing that it is not very important, having not been named as casus belli.
    In case you missed my update here it is again

    Hussein's Iraq and al Qaeda not linked, Pentagon says - CNN.com

    Ergo those contacts did not exist
    Last edited by flogger; 05-28-15 at 02:59 PM.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTrumps View Post
    by agreeing with the CIA and, the Clinton administration, and every intelligence agency in the western world? that's some conspiracy you came up with there. it makes zero sense, but you aren't the first.
    and how did Bush get Colin Powell to lie. I mean, if he's such a moron(better SATs than Obama by the way)
    They all lied pretty blatantly in order to follow Bush's tune and thats become pretty apparent in the fullness of time.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTrumps View Post
    by agreeing with the CIA and, the Clinton administration, and every intelligence agency in the western world? that's some conspiracy you came up with there. it makes zero sense, but you aren't the first.
    and how did Bush get Colin Powell to lie. I mean, if he's such a moron(better SATs than Obama by the way)
    I'm sure it was not the 1st time Powell did something he didn't want to do because it was his "duty" and the CIC asked him to. He resigned soon after in disgust.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    One was a secular regime the other a rabid fundamentalist group so there could be no 'common ground' given the threat they posed to one another




    There never were any such contacts . They were a lie dreamt up in Washington to help facilitate the conflict and were used to bring the public and military to the perception of this (false) casus belli they required



    In case you missed my update here it is again

    Hussein's Iraq and al Qaeda not linked, Pentagon says - CNN.com

    Ergo those contacts did not exist
    Lie? Again you pribably err, but I am not interested enough to show slander. Let be enough that I checked it at the time and found enough evidence to make it seem very probable that your present certainty is misplaced

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Lie? Again you pribably err, but I am not interested enough to show slander. Let be enough that I checked it at the time and found enough evidence to make it seem very probable that your present certainty is misplaced
    I have to say I find your continued naievity on this issue incomprehensible in light of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary that has been presented to you. Even in quoted statements made by Bush himself flying in the face of what his own intelligence community was telling him at the time. If you choose not to believe something in spite of all that then I'm never going to make you change your mind

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Will B. Black View Post
    Ok then... What would you do if your government forced you to fight against local militants? The OP is about men who lose the will to fight, real living men.
    Greetings, Will B. Black.

    The same thing came up in a conversation I had recently with my brother. My thought was that I didn't believe they dropped their weapons and ran out of cowardice, but that they personally knew the people they were expected to kill - it could have been a next door neighbor. Since I don't know whether or not they have a choice in joining the army in the first place, or if everyone in a certain age bracket is conscripted, I guess it would depend upon how strongly one felt about living under a new regime like ISIS that might have more restrictive rules to follow. Perhaps they decided the choice wasn't worth dying for?

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, Grant.
    WOW! I didn't know my eyes could open that wide in shock this early in the day! While I agree that climate change is not the biggest threat this country faces - considering that everybody and his brother now think they should all have nukes, which I consider a bit more critical - their level of outrage, frustration, and sarcasm was totally unexpected! If this was a spoof, it was certainly a shock to watch!
    Morning, Polgara! No, it wasn't a spoof. People take their politics, and freedom of expression, pretty seriously over there, though religion is probably handled more 'discretely' in some areas. They were certainly right in getting rid of the Muslim Brotherhood, which they mentioned.

    I think we are all a little shocked by these guys because they are saying what they think and are not afraid of using words we'd avoid. I read elsewhere where someone raised the point that although we can admire ground-breaking comedians like George Carlin, Lenny Bruce or Richard Prior, the sad fact is that these people would never survive in this 'you can't say that' environment. So we are shocked when people actually say what they are thinking and feeling and they're not at all concerned about being called 'racist' or 'bigot' or 'Islamophobe'. Cheers!

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTrumps View Post
    by agreeing with the CIA and, the Clinton administration, and every intelligence agency in the western world? that's some conspiracy you came up with there. it makes zero sense, but you aren't the first.
    and how did Bush get Colin Powell to lie. I mean, if he's such a moron(better SATs than Obama by the way)
    You seem to keep some selective memory there. Joe Wilson called Bush out in the New York Times for lying, LYING. Downing Street said that Bush was arranging the intelligence to fit his policy. Hans Blix angrily accused Bush of putting his policy of regime change ahead of the facts, and...........................George W. Bush's CIA Briefer: Bush and Cheney Falsely Presented WMD Intelligence to Public!

    I can't believe there's still a dozen people hanging by their fingernails in desperation to validate that so very failed policy of Bush's.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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