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Thread: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS[W:452]

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Increase bombing, I would form together a collation of countries which would include Saudi Arabia/othe arab nations and get boots on the ground asap.
    We've been bombing places for 14 years now, has that produced anything? We had many boots on the ground for these 14 years, where are we? I mean something tangible. Do you have an actual plan for securing the ME and for the vilians of the countries to hold their governments once we are gone?

    No plan, no dice. Our intervention has made matters worse, not better. More of the same will not miraculously reverse the trend. Real plans, real goals, real time lines. If ya got one, then let's figure it out. If you don't, then we shouldn't be fighting. "No Plan" is not a way to run an interventionist, occupation war.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Would posters prefer we left Iraq to fight alone even if this meant that ISIS took full control of the region?
    Alone?
    I thought Russia, Iran and some other countries were offering assistance.

    Also, is there some middle which you have excluded in the options you listed?
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    It was the US presence in the region that caused the terrorist threat to exist in the first place. Hussein may well have been a repressive dictator but he kept such groups well in check and was no friend of Muslim fundamentalism which threatened his own position.

    Hussein and his offspring were the devil we knew and could cope with. Now look what we've got
    We can cope with ISIS, we just choose not to. Don't mistake the barbarism you see in our absence with how things would be if US troops were still in Iraq.

    Saddam murdered an estimate of 1 million people in his 25 years in power. ISIS is small time compared to Saddam.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Alone?
    I thought Russia, Iran and some other countries were offering assistance.

    Also, is there some middle which you have excluded in the options you listed?
    Well, then, would Americans prefer that Iraq become a puppet of Iran?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  5. #105
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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We've been bombing places for 14 years now, has that produced anything? We had many boots on the ground for these 14 years, where are we? I mean something tangible. Do you have an actual plan for securing the ME and for the vilians of the countries to hold their governments once we are gone?

    No plan, no dice. Our intervention has made matters worse, not better. More of the same will not miraculously reverse the trend. Real plans, real goals, real time lines. If ya got one, then let's figure it out. If you don't, then we shouldn't be fighting. "No Plan" is not a way to run an interventionist, occupation war.
    Any plan should be headed up by the other araba nations with the US, UK etc giving support. The issue with the last 14 years is that we were trying to occupy the region, what's needed for this fight is small rapid response units that can be dispatched anywhere in the region, fight ISIS and then return back to a neutral zone.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by MVictorP View Post
    It isn't my sole statement - it is a consensus that you are going against. I don't get the feel that the Bush administration would invade Iraq if they knew what we now know. Do you?



    Politics are as much about what you don't know than what you know. It's easy to be armchair analysts here with the benefit of retrospect, but for Hussein, apparent weakness in his own country was something he couldn't have survived. Beside, the idea the US attacking Iraq was almost surrealistic before it happen - a solid part of the planet figured it was just posturing, since it was clear that there was no reasons to invade Iraq whatsoever.



    So Israel and the KSA can do but Iraq can't? You can't be the policemen of the world if you have a measure for each weight that you come across. Poeple just see throught this, you know, and hardly accept such geometrically variable values. Be consistant.
    - Possibly not. Possibly they would have done it differently. "What if" won't get us anywhere. At the time and with the knowledge available it was decision that was not wrong.
    - You are right that politics is often about statistical type knowledge. In the case of Saddam the debriefing of the his inner circle indicated that he wanted the neighborhood to think he still had the wmd and that Putin, Schröder and Chirac would protect him from invasion. Even this might be wrong and the various people lying, but it is a believable explanation.
    - Yes. As far as I am concerned it is better Israel have Nukes than Iraq or Iran. No doubt in my mind. That would change, if the the UN were reliably responsible for robustly protecting populations and stopping wars. But as it is? Everyone responsible for family and friends themselves? Nope. Not now the way it is.
    You see, it is not a question of fairness and all that. It is much more archaic. It is a question of allies and enemies in deadly circumstances.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Well, then, would Americans prefer that Iraq become a puppet of Iran?
    Are ISIS and Iran the only choices on the buffet?
    I may be wrong.

  8. #108
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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Are ISIS and Iran the only choices on the buffet?
    At the moment? Yes.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Saddam murdered an estimate of 1 million people in his 25 years in power. ISIS is small time compared to Saddam.
    Lets not forget who his buddies were at the height of his killing spree

    RumsfeldSaddam.jpg

    » Donald Rumsfeld Shakes Hands With Saddam Hussein

  10. #110
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    Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Lets not forget who his buddies were at the height of his killing spree

    RumsfeldSaddam.jpg

    » Donald Rumsfeld Shakes Hands With Saddam Hussein
    That wasn't the height of his killing spree. That was taken in 1983.

    US support for Iraq was always limited. There is a reason why US M1A Abrams tanks were destroying Soviet T-72s in the Gulf War rather than US M-84s that we sold to our actual allies in the region.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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