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Thread: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    Do you not understand the difference between aborting a baby with a birth defect and killing people that exist in the world?
    One is killing a human being needlessly and aggressively.

    The other is killing a human being needlessly and aggressively.

    There is no difference aside from the fact that people like you hate one of them based upon arbitrary characteristics and want them to die.

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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Don't see how its enforceable. Roe v Wade is precedent for it being a violation of privacy. It should be shot down by the courts....if they're actually doing their job correctly.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    CB, Morning
    I am Pro Abortion as the women’s decision to make up to a point.
    I agree with the prohibition on late term abortions, approx at the 22 week mark as the child is viable.
    Only exception would be if the mother’s life was at risk, and that would be hers to make, and hers to live or die with.
    In 76 my girlfriend became pregnant. I offered the usual things a man does, but it was hers to make.
    My daughter or son would be turning 39 late this year. It seems to be a constant on my mind.
    A 22 week fetus is RARELY viable. Most of the time they die.

    The study, involving nearly 5,000 babies born between 22 and 27 weeks gestation, found that 22-week-old babies did not survive without medical intervention. In the 78 cases where active treatment was given, 18 survived, and by the time they were young toddlers, seven of those did not have moderate or severe impairments. Six had serious problems such as blindness, deafness or severe cerebral palsy.

    .
    .
    .
    The study, which evaluated cases from 2006 to 2011 at 24 hospitals in a neonatal network supported by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, found that four of the hospitals intervened for no 22-week-olds, five intervened for all 22-week-olds and the rest varied. In all, about a fifth of the 357 babies that age were treated. The reasons could include family preferences and hospital policy, the authors wrote.
    Premature Babies May Survive at 22 Weeks if Treated, Study Finds

    Out of treated cases...78...18 of them surviving is NOT good odds.
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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    A 22 week fetus is RARELY viable. Most of the time they die.



    Premature Babies May Survive at 22 Weeks if Treated, Study Finds

    Out of treated cases...78...18 of them surviving is NOT good odds.
    Those odds are for today; we don't know what medical/technological advances are coming. And 18 did survive.

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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Don't see how its enforceable. Roe v Wade is precedent for it being a violation of privacy. It should be shot down by the courts....if they're actually doing their job correctly.
    If they were doing their job correctly, the states could pass whatever abortion restrictions they want, or none at all, since abortion is not mentioned in any way, shape, form, or fashion by the Constitution.

    You don't want the courts to do their job correctly. You want them to be political hacks pushing your radical agenda.

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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    A 22 week fetus is RARELY viable. Most of the time they die.

    Premature Babies May Survive at 22 Weeks if Treated, Study Finds

    Out of treated cases...78...18 of them surviving is NOT good odds.
    23% survival rate seems a lot better than zero.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    From emedicine health


    Chances of survival
    Weeks of pregnancy

    23 weeks
    Nearly 2 to 3 out of 10 survived (about 7 to 8 out of 10 died)

    24 weeks
    5 out of 10 survived (5 out of 10 died)

    25 weeks
    Nearly 8 out of 10 survived (about 2 out of 10 died)

    http://www.emedicinehealth.com/what_...article_em.htm


    Most medical expects agree that it is highly unlikely a fetus younger than 21 weeks +some days gestation will ever survive.

    The outlook for any preemie under 23 weeks gestation is so grim that most US hospitals only offer comfort care for a preemie younger than 23 gestation.
    They keep the preemie warm and comfortable until it expires on its own.


    From a November 2013 article:

    In this case, I had an ominous feeling. Under ideal circumstances, the obstetricians would use medications to try to stop preterm uterine contractions. This would give me, the neonatologist, time to talk to the woman in labor and her husband or partner and explain the risks, complications and treatment choices for a preterm baby. I would try to allay the anxiety and shock that almost all of them felt.

    Because of the bleak prognosis for babies born at 23 weeks, I also would offer the parents the option of “comfort care only,” meaning we would only warm, dry and wrap the baby and let the parents hold her as long as she was alive.
    We would arrange for a baptism or any other religious or cultural ritual the parents desired. The baby usually passed away quickly.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...35e_story.html
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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    What you consider and what is reality don't align very well.

    You are a "lump of cells."

    Don't put on airs just because you're a bigger lump. You're an organism of the species Homo sapiens, same as any unborn kid, Trisomy 21 or not.
    wrong, I can reason, I have legal rights, and I have the means to enforce those rights

    but for your belief in a deity, you cannot say an unborn fetus has any of those characteristics
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
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    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    One is killing a human being needlessly and aggressively.

    The other is killing a human being needlessly and aggressively.

    There is no difference aside from the fact that people like you hate one of them based upon arbitrary characteristics and want them to die.
    let me explain some legal philosophy to you

    do you know why murder is illegal beyond it being malum per se?

    because if SOCIETY does not punish murder, anarchy will result. If someone were to kill my son or wife or brother and society does NOTHING to punish the murderer, I am going to spent the rest of my days on earth doing every thing possible to kill everyone who was responsible for said killing. and I suspect that the survivors of my wrath would probably try to do the same to me and so on and so on

    so by having recourse to the criminal justice system, the desire for personal vengeance is mostly alleviated as people who have seen loved ones murdered defer to the state to punish the bastards who killed a family member or close friend

    no such impetus exists for an abortion.
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    This reminds me of a woman who got up and left the hospital when she found out her newborn potentially had downs. Happened at a hospital here in northern Ohio in February. She immediately asked for discharge against medical advice papers and left. The hospital kept the baby until it was moved into foster care, but they received hundreds of calls from families looking to adopt.

    The kicker to the story was he didn't have downs.

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