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Thread: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    How are they going to prove that a given abortion was performed because the fetus had downs?
    The last I read, abortion was legal in America. The hypocrisy is that conservatives say they are against intrusive government. Now, this Ohio law would make a pregnant woman have to convince the government that her reason for the abortion was legitimate.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    The last I read, abortion was legal in America. The hypocrisy is that conservatives say they are against intrusive government. Now, this Ohio law would make a pregnant woman have to convince the government that her reason for the abortion was legitimate.
    Then you would be incorrect. Not all abortions are legal.

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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Stupid bill, most of these dishonest bills will eventually be defeated like other bills based on nothing but biased emotion.
    like its other similar based bills (emotion) theres no real logic for this restriction . . if the abortion happens before the allowed time frame thats it . . the reason doesnt matter
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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    let me explain some legal philosophy to you

    do you know why murder is illegal beyond it being malum per se?

    because if SOCIETY does not punish murder, anarchy will result. If someone were to kill my son or wife or brother and society does NOTHING to punish the murderer, I am going to spent the rest of my days on earth doing every thing possible to kill everyone who was responsible for said killing. and I suspect that the survivors of my wrath would probably try to do the same to me and so on and so on

    so by having recourse to the criminal justice system, the desire for personal vengeance is mostly alleviated as people who have seen loved ones murdered defer to the state to punish the bastards who killed a family member or close friend

    no such impetus exists for an abortion.
    That may be true but the answer is far more fundamental. A fetus doesn't meet the 14th Amendment definition of a citizen nor a person.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    That may be true but the answer is far more fundamental. A fetus doesn't meet the 14th Amendment definition of a citizen nor a person.
    not to quibble but I believe my answer is the fundamental one since it deals with basic human nature that has existed long before anyone heard of a 14th amendment. but you are legally correct though: a fetus does not meet that standard
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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    23% survival rate seems a lot better than zero.
    Actually according to this article only 10 percent live long enough to be discharged from the neo natal intensive care unit of the hospital.

    From a November 2014 article:


    22 Weeks: Less than 10% of babies born at 22 weeks live to NICU discharge.

    23 Weeks: Survival varies greatly. Between 1/4 and 2/3 of babies born at this gestational age will survive.

    24 Weeks: About 1/2 to 3/4 of babies will live.

    25 Weeks: Up to 85% of babies will survive.

    26 Weeks: 80% to 93% of babies born at this gestational age will live.
    http://preemies.about.com/od/preemie...y-Survival.htm

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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Actually according to this article only 10 percent live long enough to be discharged from the hospital.

    From a November 2014 article:


    22 Weeks: Less than 10% of babies born at 22 weeks live to NICU discharge.

    23 Weeks: Survival varies greatly. Between 1/4 and 2/3 of babies born at this gestational age will survive.

    24 Weeks: About 1/2 to 3/4 of babies will live.

    25 Weeks: Up to 85% of babies will survive.

    26 Weeks: 80% to 93% of babies born at this gestational age will live.
    10% is also better than zero.

    If there was a drug that cured 10% of AIDS patients would you reject it because 90% died anyway?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Then you would be incorrect. Not all abortions are legal.
    I didn't want to have to provide a dissertation in the post. Yes, you are right. I was referring to the concept of abortion.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    10% is also better than zero.

    If there was a drug that cured 10% of AIDS patients would you reject it because 90% died anyway?
    If the parent(s) want to try to intervene and the hospital is equipped to try to intervene that is up to the parent(s) and staff to try to intervene than that should be their choice. If the parents which to give comfort care than at that early stage with such low odds of survival they should be able to make that choice.

    Something else to consider is the fact that neo natal units and staff are limited.

    Using the equipment and staff to try to save a 22 week gestation preemie may mean there is no neo natal available for 25 week gestational preemie born that would have an 85 percent chance to live if a unit were available.

    So the staff should just say " sorry we can't intervene and try to save 25 week gestational preemie because a 22 week gestational preemie is using it and just might have 10 percent chance of living long enough to make it out of the neo natal intensive care unit."

    Hard choices.
    I am glad I am not faced with a choice like that.

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    Re: Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    If the parent(s) want to try to intervene and the hospital is equipped to try to intervene that is up to the parent(s) and staff to try to intervene than that should be their choice. If the parents which to give comfort care than at that early stage with such low odds of survival they should be able to make that choice.

    Something else to consider is the fact that neo natal units and staff are limited.

    Using the equipment and staff to try to save a 22 week gestation preemie may mean there is no neo natal available for 25 week gestational preemie born that would have an 85 percent chance to live if a unit were available.

    So the staff should just say " sorry we can't intervene and try to save 25 week gestational preemie because a 22 week gestational preemie is using it and just might have 10 percent chance of living long enough to make it out of the neo natal intensive care unit."

    Hard choices.
    I am glad I am not faced with a choice like that.
    That isn't how hospitals staff demand. Not in the US, anyway. Socialized medicine might do it that way...
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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