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Just days after seizing Palmyra, Isis massacres 400 people in the ancient city

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My condolences to the innocent people murdered by these savages.

Just days after seizing Palmyra, Isis massacres 400 people in the ancient city - Middle East - World - The Independent

Isis has slaughtered more than 400 mostly women and children in the ancient city of Palmyra, two days after capturing the ancient city. Syrian state television reported the massacre, quoting residents of the city. The state news agency said: "The terrorists have killed more than 400 people.. and mutilated their bodies, under the pretext that they cooperated with the government and did not follow orders." Opposition activists claimed that hundreds of bodies littered the streets. They said that many of the victims were from groups or families loyal to the government. Amongst the dead were state employees - including the head of the nursing department at the city hospital, and all of her family members. Isis supporters released videos of militants searching government buildings, looking for victims and pulling down pictures of Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad and his father. Palmyra, a city of 50,000 people is known for its world-famous Roman ruins, including well-preserved temples, colonnades, and a theatre. Fears are growing that the group will destroy these priceless remains, given their past record.
 
As has been foreseen, when a group of violent fascists goes unchallenged, atrocities, chaos and destruction will know no bounds.

The Second Coming by William Butler Yeats : The Poetry Foundation
The Second Coming
By William Butler Yeats


Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Source: The Collected Poems of W. B. Yeats (1989)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Coming_(poem)

The Poem was written in 1919 in the aftermath of the First World War and was at first entitled "The Second Birth"

It was written at a time when all who were watching could see the signs of rising German Fascism.

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Look what the Arab Spring has sprung, and its not the birth of a new democracy.
 
Meanwhile the US led coalition continues with its policy of trying to kill As few IS troops as possible. Go figure.
 
As has been foreseen, when a group of violent fascists goes unchallenged, atrocities, chaos and destruction will know no bounds.

The Second Coming by William Butler Yeats : The Poetry Foundation



The Second Coming (poem) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Poem was written in 1919 in the aftermath of the First World War and was at first entitled "The Second Birth"

It was written at a time when all who were watching could see the signs of rising German Fascism.

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There is a distinct difference between the two. While Germany's rise can't be compared to that of the Islamic States in anyway. I don't know why there's such a problem with people understanding this, but by a consensus amongst the nations intelligence agencies, (Report: Iraq War Made Terror 'Worse' - CBS News) the removal of Saddam Hussein and the invasion and occupation of Iraq created an unprecedented circumstance in the Middle East. It was the direct cause of a sudden increase in global terrorism and the radicalisation of Islamic extremists which flowed into Iraq to take advantage of that power vacuum. Eventually, these groups morphed through several phases, organising as the Islamic State in Iraq (ISI) in 2006. Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Then there's the removal of Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad that the Islamic State has been the beneficiary of. A dozen years of failed USFP in the region!!
 
There is a distinct difference between the two. While Germany's rise can't be compared to that of the Islamic States in anyway. I don't know why there's such a problem with people understanding this, but by a consensus amongst the nations intelligence agencies, (Report: Iraq War Made Terror 'Worse' - CBS News) the removal of Saddam Hussein and the invasion and occupation of Iraq created an unprecedented circumstance in the Middle East. It was the direct cause of a sudden increase in global terrorism and the radicalisation of Islamic extremists which flowed into Iraq to take advantage of that power vacuum. Eventually, these groups morphed through several phases, organising as the Islamic State in Iraq (ISI) in 2006. Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Then there's the removal of Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad that the Islamic State has been the beneficiary of. A dozen years of failed USFP in the region!!

Can't be compared in ANY Way?!!!

Good Gods, your assertion is just plain laughable!

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Μολὼν λαβέ;1064652175 said:
Look what the Arab Spring has sprung, and its not the birth of a new democracy.

Tunisia?
 
Can't be compared in ANY Way?!!!

Good Gods, your assertion is just plain laughable!

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Well, have your chuckle, but I don't know how you might demonstrate that the US was in anyway whatsoever responsible for hitlers rise to power.
 

A distinct possibility, we'll see. But certainly the one of them all that the US had the least if any involvement. Which is quite telling.
 
Well, have your chuckle, but I don't know how you might demonstrate that the US was in anyway whatsoever responsible for hitlers rise to power.

Do you know the history of the German North American Bund? German American Bund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you know the history of the reparations and restrictions on military placed on German and others, which led to the creation of the Pseudo-Military Militias and hiding of the growth of NAZIS internal police power which allowed the "Night of Long Knives" to take place?

World War I: Treaties and Reparations

Night of the Long Knives (1934) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you know about the secret treaties made by England and its Western Allies, allowing the International Aggression by Germany into selected neighbors, with the agreement that there would be "Peace in Our Time".

Peace for our time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casablanca_Conference

Just how much can you possibly know about the issues, laws, treaties, and actions which led to the "Rise of the Third Reich" ....
Third Reich: An Overview

and/or the history of the Rise of Militant Islam, Jihad and the evolution of ISIS?
The Evolution Of Islamic Terrorism - An Overview | Target America | FRONTLINE | PBS
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/revi...-03-01/jihad-rise-militant-islam-central-asia
The Rise of Militant Islam
Islamic terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




If you cannot see the parallels and connections between the two?

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Do you know the history of the German North American Bund? German American Bund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you know the history of the reparations and restrictions on military placed on German and others, which led to the creation of the Pseudo-Military Militias and hiding of the growth of NAZIS internal police power which allowed the "Night of Long Knives" to take place?

World War I: Treaties and Reparations

Night of the Long Knives (1934) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you know about the secret treaties made by England and its Western Allies, allowing the International Aggression by Germany into selected neighbors, with the agreement that there would be "Peace in Our Time".

Peace for our time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casablanca_Conference

Just how much can you possibly know about the issues, laws, treaties, and actions which led to the "Rise of the Third Reich" ....
Third Reich: An Overview

and/or the history of the Rise of Militant Islam, Jihad and the evolution of ISIS?
The Evolution Of Islamic Terrorism - An Overview | Target America | FRONTLINE | PBS
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/revi...-03-01/jihad-rise-militant-islam-central-asia
The Rise of Militant Islam
Islamic terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




If you cannot see the parallels and connections between the two?

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So it's your position that the West created the atmosphere and laid the stepping stones for Hitler to place his feet on his journey to power!!!
 
Although history has demonstrated such a thing is possible over and over and over again, I'm never any better at comprehending how an entire people (in this case, the people of ISIS) can have their humanity switch turned completely off. I don't even know how to respond to this kind of barbarism.
 
I wish people would stop referring to the Arab Spring as a single event. It's pretty stupid. The Arab Spring is a collection of movements which were created through the different conditions in half a dozen Arab countries. Arabs weren't in ideological cahoots and calling each other up to find out what they were going to do in 2010.
 
So it's your position that the West created the atmosphere and laid the stepping stones for Hitler to place his feet on his journey to power!!!

Hitler's rise to power, and that of the NAZIS party and the Third Reich, is much bigger than any single individual, including Hitler himself, and involves for more forces and actions, than those done by any single country, including Germany itself.

There were many societies and people who supported Fascism, at the time, as shown by the fascist movements which resulted in the rise of Axis Aligned governments in Imperial Japan and Fascist Italy.

America played a part in the rise of the crisis, to be sure, though our part was less critical, than the actions of Leaders in both France, England and most importantly the Soviet Union/Russia.

Hitler could not have gotten half so far, if not for the initial forbearance of Stalin.

In the end, Germany was not defeated by the U.S., it was defeated by Russia, and its winters. Thank the Gods for Russian Winters. First Napoleon, then Hitler!

Too bad we cannot hope for Russian Winters to aid in the defeat of ISIS.

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Hitler's rise to power, and that of the NAZIS party and the Third Reich, is much bigger than any single individual, including Hitler himself, and involves for more forces and actions, than those done by any single country, including Germany itself.

There were many societies and people who supported Fascism, at the time, as shown by the fascist movements which resulted in the rise of Axis Aligned governments in Imperial Japan and Fascist Italy.

America played a part in the rise of the crisis, to be sure, though our part was less critical, than the actions of Leaders in both France, England and most importantly the Soviet Union/Russia.

Hitler could not have gotten half so far, if not for the initial forbearance of Stalin.

In the end, Germany was not defeated by the U.S., it was defeated by Russia, and its winters. Thank the Gods for Russian Winters. First Napoleon, then Hitler!

Too bad we cannot hope for Russian Winters to aid in the defeat of ISIS.

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Too far off topic for the thread, though interesting enough, perhaps we have opportunity for further exploration of that again. To the op, I still can't see a connection between the two, and believe that the Islamic State has only benefitted by the actions that the US has advanced in the region these last dozen years or so, and that the US and other powers need to regroup and find a new approach to dealing with it.
 
Meanwhile the US led coalition continues with its policy of trying to kill As few IS troops as possible. Go figure.

Blame Obama who has increasingly shown himself to be incapable like that other president, was it Carter? And most of all blame your president GW Bush who as it turns out got the US into a war for which there was no real need.
 
Blame Obama who has increasingly shown himself to be incapable like that other president, was it Carter? And most of all blame your president GW Bush who as it turns out got the US into a war for which there was no real need.

The war that jihadi terrorists have been waging against the US (and against most of the World) has been going on for quite a few decades, long before George W. Bush.
 
Blame Obama who has increasingly shown himself to be incapable like that other president, was it Carter? And most of all blame your president GW Bush who as it turns out got the US into a war for which there was no real need.

Yep, the difference is that terrorist groups operated in the shadows. As powerful as OBL was, he operated from remote mountainous areas and caves. None of the leaders of Middle Eastern countries allowed them any visible quarters, Saddam Hussein had no affiliations with al Qaeda or OBL. It's only in the wake of US led military operations and other interfering policies in the region that Islamic extremists have found exploitable circumstances that have given them a very large footprint and a very visible public face. Now either USFP by design has been the destabilisation of the region, (which is what Wesley Clarke said the Pentagon told him to be the case) or we've had successive administrations with disastrous FP failures. Either way, it's failure!
 
OMG. What is with this mentality of pointing fingers at everyone but those responsible for this and other massacres? Are those Americans that just slaughtered 400 people? British? Irish? French? Chinese? No. They are not. The ONLY ones responsible for this and the other massacres that they have done are those that are in and support ISIS. They're the ones doing the killing. They're the ones that decided to take advantage of a weak government to commit these atrocities. They're the ones to blame. NO. ONE. ELSES.

I see this crap day in and day out. Blaming guns for PEOPLE that use them wrongly. Blaming drugs for PEOPLE actions. etc etc etc. If you want to blame someone then blame those PEOPLE that actually are doing this. Not people/things/ideologies/(insert non-person crap here).

All this "but Bush/Obama caused this vacuum!" (or insert some other stupid "reasoning") does not mean that those in ISIS couldn't have just sat down and did things peacefully instead of slaughtering everyone that they didn't like. Those in ISIS are the ones responsible for this. No one else.
 
Although history has demonstrated such a thing is possible over and over and over again, I'm never any better at comprehending how an entire people (in this case, the people of ISIS) can have their humanity switch turned completely off. I don't even know how to respond to this kind of barbarism.

I know how to respond to this kind of barbarism... with extreme force and malice.

these aren't people that the civilized world can ever reason or negotiate with....that leaves very little room for a workable strategy.

our President has already committed to a strategy of doing nothing of substance.... so our hands are pretty much tied.

I'll have to cheer on Iran as they go after ISIS, I guess.... no one else seems to have the will or the balls to thrown down with the ISIS boys <shrug>
 
OMG. What is with this mentality of pointing fingers at everyone but those responsible for this and other massacres? Are those Americans that just slaughtered 400 people? British? Irish? French? Chinese? No. They are not. The ONLY ones responsible for this and the other massacres that they have done are those that are in and support ISIS. They're the ones doing the killing. They're the ones that decided to take advantage of a weak government to commit these atrocities. They're the ones to blame. NO. ONE. ELSES.

I see this crap day in and day out. Blaming guns for PEOPLE that use them wrongly. Blaming drugs for PEOPLE actions. etc etc etc. If you want to blame someone then blame those PEOPLE that actually are doing this. Not people/things/ideologies/(insert non-person crap here).

All this "but Bush/Obama caused this vacuum!" (or insert some other stupid "reasoning") does not mean that those in ISIS couldn't have just sat down and did things peacefully instead of slaughtering everyone that they didn't like. Those in ISIS are the ones responsible for this. No one else.

Apparently the bombing of the US embassies in East Africa and countless other atrocities - long before 9/11 and long before 2003 - all didn't happen. Some people just keep looking for excuses for these barbarous jihadi terrorists.
 
OMG. What is with this mentality of pointing fingers at everyone but those responsible for this and other massacres? Are those Americans that just slaughtered 400 people? British? Irish? French? Chinese? No. They are not. The ONLY ones responsible for this and the other massacres that they have done are those that are in and support ISIS. They're the ones doing the killing. They're the ones that decided to take advantage of a weak government to commit these atrocities. They're the ones to blame. NO. ONE. ELSES.

I see this crap day in and day out. Blaming guns for PEOPLE that use them wrongly. Blaming drugs for PEOPLE actions. etc etc etc. If you want to blame someone then blame those PEOPLE that actually are doing this. Not people/things/ideologies/(insert non-person crap here).

All this "but Bush/Obama caused this vacuum!" (or insert some other stupid "reasoning") does not mean that those in ISIS couldn't have just sat down and did things peacefully instead of slaughtering everyone that they didn't like. Those in ISIS are the ones responsible for this. No one else.

I think that as we have defined "terrorism" today, the practice has existed for centuries, perhaps millennia. The point that some of us at least are trying to make, is that there is a startling difference today (which should be perceptible to all) in how terrorist organisations have found opportunity to operate. The attacks that yourself and others point to as some sort of evidence that US and other Western countries foreign policy haven't been an influence on are very different. For all their own brutalities, the hard line leaders in the Middle East that have been removed by our foreign policy decisions, CONTAINED the Islamic extremists, which is why they were only capable of pulling off occasional attacks. It certainly wasn't in their interests to allow Islamic extremists footholds and visible base of operation within their countries. Despite the Bush administrations claims to the contrary, no connection has ever been made between Saddam Hussein and OBL or al Qaeda. The rise in power and the widespread formidable presence of the Islamic State has a direct correlation to the absence of Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad (for all intents and purposes) and even the Bush era (2006) NIE, by consensus amongst the nations intelligence agencies, concluded that the invasion and occupation of Iraq had the direct result of increasing terrorism globally, and made America less safe!!! So, while the Islamic State is directly and personally responsible for each and every person they behead, burn alive, blow up or mutilate, the United States and other Western nations involved bear the responsibility of pursuing policies that have been favourable to and have been beneficial to the group, and has given opportunity for them to exploit/take advantage of the vacuums those policies have created. This is not the opinions merely of a few DP posters, educated and experienced individuals such as many at the BI, the CFR, international law scholars, former heads of AIEA, and heads of state, foreign affairs experts, etc., all to have acknowledged the same.
 
I know how to respond to this kind of barbarism... with extreme force and malice.

these aren't people that the civilized world can ever reason or negotiate with....that leaves very little room for a workable strategy.

our President has already committed to a strategy of doing nothing of substance.... so our hands are pretty much tied.

I'll have to cheer on Iran as they go after ISIS, I guess.... no one else seems to have the will or the balls to thrown down with the ISIS boys <shrug>

That's great, but what entity would you leave in its place to prevent the next ISIS?
 
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That's great, but what entity would you leave in its place to prevent the next ISIS?

preferably a multinational security force whose mission is sovereign security and training, as opposed to an occupation force exerting control over internal affairs..
 
preferably a multinational security force whose mission is sovereign security and training, as opposed to an occupation force exerting control over internal affairs..

I'm thinking just a shooting gallery for snipers. If it is moving and armed, kill it. Ever over hunt an area? Eventually even the animals that do not get taken out get the hint and relocate. We had a problem with destructive squirrels a year back, chewing up the house, wiring on the cars. In the beginning you could get a dozen an hour. Then fewer, fewer, until it was just ones and twos. Eventually there was not a squirrel to be found. Now the population is coming back. Saw 5 at one time this weekend. So far they seem to stay away from the house and the cars. As long as that is the case we can watch them chase each other around in the woods. If they start destroying things again, well, we know the cure for that.

Before anyone flies off the handle here, there were (and are) plenty of other animals out there. There are possums, raccoons, cats, dogs, rabbits, even a few foxes in the woods near us. Only the squirrels were removed. Target identification is key. So if you are in that area, are not wearing a military uniform and are moving around armed, well, you are a target. Eventually the drill will be to evac ahead of incoming ISIS forces and let the snipers take them down. Beats bombing the city once they get there and leaving ruins for the original occupants when they return. I'm thinking if the military provided the equipment there are plenty of people who would volunteer. Drop a few hundred Texas night hunters out there and you will see what terrifies those ISIS guys. The problem is our troops are restricted in when they can engage. Mercenaries are not. Image the sounds of a bunch of Texas hog hunters calling at night from the ridges and rooftops....
 
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