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Thread: Just days after seizing Palmyra, Isis massacres 400 people in the ancient city

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    Re: Just days after seizing Palmyra, Isis massacres 400 people in the ancient city

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    OMG. What is with this mentality of pointing fingers at everyone but those responsible for this and other massacres? Are those Americans that just slaughtered 400 people? British? Irish? French? Chinese? No. They are not. The ONLY ones responsible for this and the other massacres that they have done are those that are in and support ISIS. They're the ones doing the killing. They're the ones that decided to take advantage of a weak government to commit these atrocities. They're the ones to blame. NO. ONE. ELSES.

    I see this crap day in and day out. Blaming guns for PEOPLE that use them wrongly. Blaming drugs for PEOPLE actions. etc etc etc. If you want to blame someone then blame those PEOPLE that actually are doing this. Not people/things/ideologies/(insert non-person crap here).

    All this "but Bush/Obama caused this vacuum!" (or insert some other stupid "reasoning") does not mean that those in ISIS couldn't have just sat down and did things peacefully instead of slaughtering everyone that they didn't like. Those in ISIS are the ones responsible for this. No one else.
    Apparently the bombing of the US embassies in East Africa and countless other atrocities - long before 9/11 and long before 2003 - all didn't happen. Some people just keep looking for excuses for these barbarous jihadi terrorists.

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    Re: Just days after seizing Palmyra, Isis massacres 400 people in the ancient city

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    OMG. What is with this mentality of pointing fingers at everyone but those responsible for this and other massacres? Are those Americans that just slaughtered 400 people? British? Irish? French? Chinese? No. They are not. The ONLY ones responsible for this and the other massacres that they have done are those that are in and support ISIS. They're the ones doing the killing. They're the ones that decided to take advantage of a weak government to commit these atrocities. They're the ones to blame. NO. ONE. ELSES.

    I see this crap day in and day out. Blaming guns for PEOPLE that use them wrongly. Blaming drugs for PEOPLE actions. etc etc etc. If you want to blame someone then blame those PEOPLE that actually are doing this. Not people/things/ideologies/(insert non-person crap here).

    All this "but Bush/Obama caused this vacuum!" (or insert some other stupid "reasoning") does not mean that those in ISIS couldn't have just sat down and did things peacefully instead of slaughtering everyone that they didn't like. Those in ISIS are the ones responsible for this. No one else.
    I think that as we have defined "terrorism" today, the practice has existed for centuries, perhaps millennia. The point that some of us at least are trying to make, is that there is a startling difference today (which should be perceptible to all) in how terrorist organisations have found opportunity to operate. The attacks that yourself and others point to as some sort of evidence that US and other Western countries foreign policy haven't been an influence on are very different. For all their own brutalities, the hard line leaders in the Middle East that have been removed by our foreign policy decisions, CONTAINED the Islamic extremists, which is why they were only capable of pulling off occasional attacks. It certainly wasn't in their interests to allow Islamic extremists footholds and visible base of operation within their countries. Despite the Bush administrations claims to the contrary, no connection has ever been made between Saddam Hussein and OBL or al Qaeda. The rise in power and the widespread formidable presence of the Islamic State has a direct correlation to the absence of Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad (for all intents and purposes) and even the Bush era (2006) NIE, by consensus amongst the nations intelligence agencies, concluded that the invasion and occupation of Iraq had the direct result of increasing terrorism globally, and made America less safe!!! So, while the Islamic State is directly and personally responsible for each and every person they behead, burn alive, blow up or mutilate, the United States and other Western nations involved bear the responsibility of pursuing policies that have been favourable to and have been beneficial to the group, and has given opportunity for them to exploit/take advantage of the vacuums those policies have created. This is not the opinions merely of a few DP posters, educated and experienced individuals such as many at the BI, the CFR, international law scholars, former heads of AIEA, and heads of state, foreign affairs experts, etc., all to have acknowledged the same.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Just days after seizing Palmyra, Isis massacres 400 people in the ancient city

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    I know how to respond to this kind of barbarism... with extreme force and malice.

    these aren't people that the civilized world can ever reason or negotiate with....that leaves very little room for a workable strategy.

    our President has already committed to a strategy of doing nothing of substance.... so our hands are pretty much tied.

    I'll have to cheer on Iran as they go after ISIS, I guess.... no one else seems to have the will or the balls to thrown down with the ISIS boys <shrug>
    That's great, but what entity would you leave in its place to prevent the next ISIS?
    Last edited by Cardinal; 05-26-15 at 11:38 AM.

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    Re: Just days after seizing Palmyra, Isis massacres 400 people in the ancient city

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    That's great, but what entity would you leave in its place to prevent the next ISIS?
    preferably a multinational security force whose mission is sovereign security and training, as opposed to an occupation force exerting control over internal affairs..

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    Re: Just days after seizing Palmyra, Isis massacres 400 people in the ancient city

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    preferably a multinational security force whose mission is sovereign security and training, as opposed to an occupation force exerting control over internal affairs..
    I'm thinking just a shooting gallery for snipers. If it is moving and armed, kill it. Ever over hunt an area? Eventually even the animals that do not get taken out get the hint and relocate. We had a problem with destructive squirrels a year back, chewing up the house, wiring on the cars. In the beginning you could get a dozen an hour. Then fewer, fewer, until it was just ones and twos. Eventually there was not a squirrel to be found. Now the population is coming back. Saw 5 at one time this weekend. So far they seem to stay away from the house and the cars. As long as that is the case we can watch them chase each other around in the woods. If they start destroying things again, well, we know the cure for that.

    Before anyone flies off the handle here, there were (and are) plenty of other animals out there. There are possums, raccoons, cats, dogs, rabbits, even a few foxes in the woods near us. Only the squirrels were removed. Target identification is key. So if you are in that area, are not wearing a military uniform and are moving around armed, well, you are a target. Eventually the drill will be to evac ahead of incoming ISIS forces and let the snipers take them down. Beats bombing the city once they get there and leaving ruins for the original occupants when they return. I'm thinking if the military provided the equipment there are plenty of people who would volunteer. Drop a few hundred Texas night hunters out there and you will see what terrifies those ISIS guys. The problem is our troops are restricted in when they can engage. Mercenaries are not. Image the sounds of a bunch of Texas hog hunters calling at night from the ridges and rooftops....

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    Re: Just days after seizing Palmyra, Isis massacres 400 people in the ancient city

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I think that as we have defined "terrorism" today, the practice has existed for centuries, perhaps millennia. The point that some of us at least are trying to make, is that there is a startling difference today (which should be perceptible to all) in how terrorist organisations have found opportunity to operate. The attacks that yourself and others point to as some sort of evidence that US and other Western countries foreign policy haven't been an influence on are very different. For all their own brutalities, the hard line leaders in the Middle East that have been removed by our foreign policy decisions, CONTAINED the Islamic extremists, which is why they were only capable of pulling off occasional attacks. It certainly wasn't in their interests to allow Islamic extremists footholds and visible base of operation within their countries. Despite the Bush administrations claims to the contrary, no connection has ever been made between Saddam Hussein and OBL or al Qaeda. The rise in power and the widespread formidable presence of the Islamic State has a direct correlation to the absence of Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad (for all intents and purposes) and even the Bush era (2006) NIE, by consensus amongst the nations intelligence agencies, concluded that the invasion and occupation of Iraq had the direct result of increasing terrorism globally, and made America less safe!!! So, while the Islamic State is directly and personally responsible for each and every person they behead, burn alive, blow up or mutilate, the United States and other Western nations involved bear the responsibility of pursuing policies that have been favourable to and have been beneficial to the group, and has given opportunity for them to exploit/take advantage of the vacuums those policies have created. This is not the opinions merely of a few DP posters, educated and experienced individuals such as many at the BI, the CFR, international law scholars, former heads of AIEA, and heads of state, foreign affairs experts, etc., all to have acknowledged the same.
    Again with the finger pointing where it doesn't belong. Why am I not surprised? Since when is any government or any person in a government able to tell the future? Do they have a crystal ball I don't know about? Or some machine that can look out into space JUUUUSSSTTT right and be able to see the curvature of space and right back to our planet in the future like in that one movie? (can't remember the name of it)

    No? No. The kind of thinking of "Let's blame someone other than the TERRORISTS!" does nothing constructive.
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    Re: Just days after seizing Palmyra, Isis massacres 400 people in the ancient city

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Again with the finger pointing where it doesn't belong. Why am I not surprised? Since when is any government or any person in a government able to tell the future? Do they have a crystal ball I don't know about? Or some machine that can look out into space JUUUUSSSTTT right and be able to see the curvature of space and right back to our planet in the future like in that one movie? (can't remember the name of it)

    No? No. The kind of thinking of "Let's blame someone other than the TERRORISTS!" does nothing constructive.
    But I said that the terrorists are responsible for ever person that they kill. I just also pointed out that it's been very stupid of the US to pursue policies that the Islamic State he's been the beneficiary of, do you see how that works. I suppose you're accusing the nations intelligence services as well as the majority of Americans now for finger pointing too??!!!
    Last edited by Montecresto; 05-26-15 at 04:20 PM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Just days after seizing Palmyra, Isis massacres 400 people in the ancient city

    This is an interesting analysis of Obama's foreign policy by some Egyptian broadcasters.

    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Just days after seizing Palmyra, Isis massacres 400 people in the ancient city

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    This is an interesting analysis of Obama's foreign policy by some Egyptian broadcasters.

    Like you gave any credibility to Egyptian broadcasters when they were mocking Bush policies in the Middle East, lol.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Just days after seizing Palmyra, Isis massacres 400 people in the ancient city

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Like you gave any credibility to Egyptian broadcasters when they were mocking Bush policies in the Middle East, lol.
    You didn't have enough time to watch it prior to responding. I think that it's interesting to look at our country through the eyes of foreigners. These folks have credibility in Egypt and probably reflect popular opinion there.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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