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Warren Buffett: $15 minimum wage will hurt the working class

Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Objective Voice said:
That's because you really can't put a price point on what one person might accept as a fair labor rate versus another. This is precisely why so many Republicans who are against both immigration reform and increasing the minimum wage purposely convoluted both issues by throwing in how allowing immigrants to come into the U.S. and increasing the minimum wage will have such a negative impact of employment prospects for unskilled Blacks. It's easier to get people who are desperate and know no better to accept an unfair price point in wages and call it "fair" when they're hungry and all they want to do is survive. But have that same Black person, for example, apply for that same construction job and ask for a salary he knows he's worth and he's most likely to lose the job not because he's unqualified, but because his asking price above minimum wage is too high compared relatively to the immigrant who will take $2.50/hr AND is willing to be paid under the table/off the books.
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ah more proof that the Democrat party's pandering is going to lead to problems. They want unlimited immigration since many Latino immigrants-legal or otherwise-want handouts but at the same time this hurts black labor
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

imagep said:
Not at all. Pay is determined by negotiating power.

If I can hire you for $8/hr, and if you are suitable for he position I need to fill, I'm not going to offer you more money just because you have a PhD.
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LOL

Of course it is. It's naive to suggest otherwise.

A PhD is likely not going to be interested in your $8/hr job. And if you could snag a PhD for that menial job, you'd likely be willing to pay them more than the average unskilled worker applying for the same job.

It's probably not helpful to be thinking of unskilled jobs when trying to make your point. An unskilled worker is in a poor position to negotiate pay as a Senior Programmer at Microsoft, but a PhD in Computer Language would be in a rather strong position. Pay is a measure of value to the market, which includes supply/demand.

That is a fact.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Warren Buffett: $15 minimum wage will hurt the working class
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guaranteed debt free access to college / post secondary job training would do a lot more good than a fifteen dollar minimum wage.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Helix said:
guaranteed debt free access to college / post secondary job training would do a lot more good than a fifteen dollar minimum wage.
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Everyone isn't cut out for college or higher skill level jobs.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

imagep said:
Everyone isn't cut out for college or higher skill level jobs.
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True and I wish High School would promote this and let kids know about trade and vocational training instead of college or bust.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

ocean515;1064654820...And if you could snag a PhD for that menial job said:
No I wouldn't, that would be foolish of me. Someone with a PhD has no more value to me in a low skill level job than a high school dropout.
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Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Helix said:
guaranteed debt free access to college / post secondary job training would do a lot more good than a fifteen dollar minimum wage.
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interesting you propose it but refuse to support it.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

imagep said:
No I wouldn't, that would be foolish of me. Someone with a PhD has no more value to me in a low skill level job than a high school dropout.
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that is hwy you will only get the high school drop out. although I wouldn't want a high school drop out doing my accounting books. you probably want a CPA and they will want more than 8 dollars an hour.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

TurtleDude said:
lets jettison this living wage idiocy. It has no relevance to a rational discussion about the cost of a commodity known as labor
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What's the alternative to a living wage?
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Deuce said:
What's the alternative to a living wage?
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Poverty? Homelessnes or robbery? Or better yet, in the eyes of many conservatives - welfare.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

I'm really looking forward to finding out what happens in the cities which are significantly increasing minimum wage. I hate that we won't really find out for a few years.

However, I imagine the results will be about the same as has always happened when min wage has increased. History is the best predictor of the future.

And what happens if the economy in these cities does very well? Will other areas recognize this and do the same? Or will they just say "they would have done even better if min wage wasn't increased"?

I can easily see liberal areas all increasing min wage, while conservative areas failing to do so, and liberal areas becoming pockets of prosperity, while conservative areas become pockets of poverty. Or maybe the opposite will happen.
 
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Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

sawdust said:
Free markets.
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And for the person that Lord Sawdust deems unfit to live?
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

imagep said:
I'm really looking forward to finding out what happens in the cities which are significantly increasing minimum wage. I hate that we won't really find out for a few years.

However, I imagine the results will be about the same as has always happened when min wage has increased. History is the best predictor of the future.
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Doom and destruction!?
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Just following up on my "history is the best predictor of the future" idea...

2014 Job Creation Faster in States that Raised the Minimum Wage | CEPR Blog | Blogs | Publications | The Center for Economic and Policy Research

https://www.washingtonpolicy.org/pu...age-increases-states-are-unrelated-job-growth

Show This To The Next Person Who Says High Minimum Wages Kill Jobs The city with one of the highest minimum wages in the country has had faster job growth than any other big city over the past 10 years.
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Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

imagep said:
Everyone isn't cut out for college or higher skill level jobs.
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but everyone should have debt free access to post secondary education.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Deuce said:
And for the person that Lord Sawdust deems unfit to live?
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A sustainable job has to generate enough revenue to pay for itself and produce profit or the job or business disappears. People not creating employment can easily say, raise prices to pay for additional labor burden but that's not the way business works. When a good or service becomes more expensive than the market will support sales disappear and jobs go with them. That's how jobs appear and disappear.

Government has the ability to force the labor issue by uncoupling labor costs and productivity but two things happen when that occurs. Goods and services become unaffordable for some low income consumers and job choices become fewer and businesses contract.

The answer to low wages is full employment. We've seen fast food workers make substantial wages around the Baken Oil formation because the oil industry created high demand for workers and that created a high demand for burger flippers because of a labor shortage. I've experienced the same thing for skilled labor in Tampa when employment is high, so are prices for labor because of supply and demand.

The current fifteen dollar an hour news is created by two issues. The first is there is more supply for unskilled labor than there is demand and that suppresses wages. The second is the fact that labor unions are losing relevance and in search of new markets for membership they look to fast food organizations for new membership offering a fight for higher wages but not advertising the fact that many fast food outlets will move to automation to combat high labor costs resulting in fewer jobs.


Over the years I've had hundreds if not thousands of employees. Currently I'm trying to keep it under fifty because of Obamacare and my unwillingness to risk more capital. Not one of the people I have employed over the years occupied a position where their cost exceeded their production. An employees ability to earn is not dictated by their ability to spend but their ability to produce.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Helix said:
but everyone should have debt free access to post secondary education.
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Who says?
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

sawdust said:
A sustainable job has to generate enough revenue to pay for itself and produce profit or the job or business disappears. People not creating employment can easily say, raise prices to pay for additional labor burden but that's not the way business works. When a good or service becomes more expensive than the market will support sales disappear and jobs go with them. That's how jobs appear and disappear.

Government has the ability to force the labor issue by uncoupling labor costs and productivity but two things happen when that occurs. Goods and services become unaffordable for some low income consumers and job choices become fewer and businesses contract.

The answer to low wages is full employment. We've seen fast food workers make substantial wages around the Baken Oil formation because the oil industry created high demand for workers and that created a high demand for burger flippers because of a labor shortage. I've experienced the same thing for skilled labor in Tampa when employment is high, so are prices for labor because of supply and demand.

The current fifteen dollar an hour news is created by two issues. The first is there is more supply for unskilled labor than there is demand and that suppresses wages. The second is the fact that labor unions are losing relevance and in search of new markets for membership they look to fast food organizations for new membership offering a fight for higher wages but not advertising the fact that many fast food outlets will move to automation to combat high labor costs resulting in fewer jobs.


Over the years I've had hundreds if not thousands of employees. Currently I'm trying to keep it under fifty because of Obamacare and my unwillingness to risk more capital. Not one of the people I have employed over the years occupied a position where their cost exceeded their production. An employees ability to earn is not dictated by their ability to spend but their ability to produce.
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That's a lot of words there but none of them actually answer the question.

Someone who isn't productive enough because Sawdust declares their labor is of lesser value than the cost to live. What happens to them?
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Helix said:
but everyone should have debt free access to post secondary education.
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Short of that, teenagers shouldn't have such easy access to credit to pursue higher education for reasons they haven't figured out yet. They are not mature enough to understand the effect of $40,000+ debt. When you apply for other loans, lenders need to know exactly how you plan to repay it. What is the lending standard for an undeclared freshman 18-year old who is going to spend the next 3 years partying before deciding to do something with his opportunities?

What would you propose to keep costs down and competitiveness up (especially with the rest of the world), because something tells me American students at the current time generally speaking don't quite have the same educational attributes as, let's say, Japanese or German or Swedish students. Universal "free" college education risks making college degrees worth less unless grading was strict enough to weed out those who don't cut it intellectually. But then granted you've exchanged a financial access challenge with a merit-based access challenge, which might be a harder pill for some to swallow and would put enormously greater scrutiny on the public education system, some of which would be undeserved.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Helix said:
go back and read the thread.
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No. You made the claim. Support it or ignore my question. Your choice.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Neomalthusian said:
Short of that, teenagers shouldn't have such easy access to credit to pursue higher education for reasons they haven't figured out yet. They are not mature enough to understand the effect of $40,000+ debt. ...
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At what age is someone mature enough to take on debt or to make their own financial decisions?

I'm not saying that you are wrong, but I am suggesting your are on the verge of getting into the nanny-state policy.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Neomalthusian said:
Short of that, teenagers shouldn't have such easy access to credit to pursue higher education for reasons they haven't figured out yet. They are not mature enough to understand the effect of $40,000+ debt.
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they shouldn't have to go into debt in order to attend college.

Neomalthusian said:
What would you propose to keep costs down and competitiveness up (especially with the rest of the world), because something tells me American students at the current time generally speaking don't quite have the same educational attributes as, let's say, Japenese or German or Swedish students. Universal "free" college education risks making college degrees worth less unless grading was strict enough to weed out those who don't cut it intellectually. But then granted you've exchanged a financial access challenge with a merit-based access challenge, which might be a harder pill for some to swallow and would put enormously greater scrutiny on the public education system, some of which would be undeserved.
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require completion of the degree as a condition. they complete the degree, they graduate with no debt. as for keeping the cost down, subsidize the school. we waste money on many programs that are more idiotic than that.
 
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