Page 40 of 45 FirstFirst ... 303839404142 ... LastLast
Results 391 to 400 of 441

Thread: Warren Buffett: $15 minimum wage will hurt the working class

  1. #391
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    55,286

    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Actually most of the people I have hired have little experience in my field. I hire good people at a decent wage and train them, usually going through three or four before I find a "keeper".
    So that's your solution? Just throw 75-80% of workers out into the street? Because they don't help you increase your profits?!?

    Let us know when you intend to double what you pay your workers. Because until then, you hate poor people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch
    Of course he will. After all, that is only fair. I cant wait to see how he plans to afford to do that, however.
    Nah. This is one of those "OTHER people should pay for this." kind of things, I'm betting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth
    Really? You just admitted it is a distortion of markets, but you still require me to explain how post tax income causes less demand for wage increases?
    Sure. Please demonstrate how receiving food stamps reduces upward wage pressure on low-skill labor employers, especially in an environment such as ours which features a wide supply of those workers.

    Really want them to ....what?
    That seems to be the crux of your argument. That taking away food stamps will cause people to want the money more, therefore, employers will give it to them. As opposed the conversation going like this:

    Employee Ronald: Hey boss, I know I show up late regular, and don't have any skill sets or anything, but man, I need more money.
    Manager McDonanld: Good to hear. How about you start applying yourself so that your labor is worth more, justifying an increase in pay and perhaps even position?
    Employee Ronald: Nah, I just want more money.
    Manager McDonald: Sorry to say I'm not going to just give you more.
    Employee Ronald: Well if you don't, I'll quit!
    Manager McDonald: Okedoke. Let me know when your last day is.

    .........

    Manager McDonald: So, I see you don't have a job currently.
    Applicant Donald: That is correct sir, but I would like to have one, so I can start working my way up.
    Manager McDonald: Fortunately, we have a brand-new vacancy. You're hired.

    .........

    Manager McDonald: Sorry all, the vacancy has been filled.
    Line of Applicants: [evidence of disappointment].


    I know, because you and your ilk realize it causes less pressure on wage demands.
    No, simply because it is a good thing to do, and a wise thing as well, for all that it can be structured unwisely and badly.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  2. #392
    Sage

    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Last Seen
    02-08-17 @ 03:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    6,639

    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    that is my problem with the welfare system it actually discourages people from working by completely falling people off a cliff after a certain point.

    the system should encourage people to get off the system by a slow phasing of benefits in proportion to their income increase.
    going to school or getting a certification in something should be a requirement for continued assistance.

    I have no problem with money going to help people improve their lives and make them self sufficient. the problem that I have with welfare that it doesn't do this.
    it encourages people to not work at all
    .
    which is why the majority of people on welfare hold jobs

  3. #393
    Sage
    Gimmesometruth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    US Southwest
    Last Seen
    03-23-17 @ 01:46 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    21,117

    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Declining Welfare has forcing functions on the recipients. The existence of serious welfare cliffs, for example, disincentivizes increasing ones' income.
    Not only are you ignoring the point and the "force" you asked for, that grassroots movements are causing laws to increase min wage, you are attempting to make an argument that less income causes less desire for income. Absurd. Of course, less welfare will surely get those elderly and children out hustling for cash money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  4. #394
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Last Seen
    01-11-17 @ 07:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    5,228

    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Not only are you ignoring the point and the "force" you asked for, that grassroots movements are causing laws to increase min wage, you are attempting to make an argument that less income causes less desire for income. Absurd. Of course, less welfare will surely get those elderly and children out hustling for cash money.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

  5. #395
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    55,286

    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Not only are you ignoring the point and the "force" you asked for, that grassroots movements are causing laws to increase min wage,
    Oh, I agree politics can create and push price floors. I just don't see how a social safety net is a subsidy to employers of employees on them, given that it is a subsidy to the employee, and there is no forcing function that would, in the event of a partial loss of social support, force the employer to calculate and then increase wages commensurately. You seem to be arguing that there is one because "everyone knows that".

    you are attempting to make an argument that less income causes less desire for income
    Not at all. I am pointing out that you cannot demonstrate your argument. Even if you did, that doesn't make social safety nets a subsidy to employers.

    Absurd. Of course, less welfare will surely get those elderly and children out hustling for cash money.
    That's interesting. Change "elderly and children" to "able-bodied low-income", and you've just made a very conservative argument .
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  6. #396
    Sage
    Gimmesometruth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    US Southwest
    Last Seen
    03-23-17 @ 01:46 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    21,117

    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Sure. Please demonstrate how receiving food stamps reduces upward wage pressure on low-skill labor employers, especially in an environment such as ours which features a wide supply of those workers.
    We are back to the same argument as above, if income is reduced there is more pressure for wage increases which can result in grassroots movements to increase min wage if an employer will not voluntarily increase wages, not to mention that finding higher wages for currently working employees is easier than trying to find work when unemployed. Employers during the recovery were very resistant in hiring the unemployed, always preferring currently employed applicants.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  7. #397
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    55,286

    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    which is why the majority of people on welfare hold jobs
    Whether or not most actually do, this is an idiotic argument.

    Oh wow, if you count people who received the Earned Income Tax Credit, most of them have Earned Income?!? You don't say!!!

    EITC generally isn't what is meant by "welfare". Folks are talking about TANF, SNAP, Medicaid, etc. EITC was added into those numbers specifically to get that result.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  8. #398
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    55,286

    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    We are back to the same argument as above, if income is reduced there is more pressure for wage increases which can result in grassroots movements to increase min wage if an employer will not voluntarily increase wages, not to mention that finding higher wages for currently working employees is easier than trying to find work when unemployed. Employers during the recovery were very resistant in hiring the unemployed, always preferring currently employed applicants.
    so your argument is that if we get rid of or decrease the social safety net, instead of forming political movements to reinstitute or increase the safety net, activists will form movements to demand increased MW laws, and that therefore the gap between the imaginary MW of a hypothetical future and today's MW is the subsidy?

    So. No. There is no forcing function. Merely the potential for an indirect function in a world in which employers do not make cost/benefit assessments. Okedoke.



    We have a wide pool of low-skill laborers. Supply and Demand are real things, that have real effects on prices. Price floors artificially reduce demand. None of these are economically controversial, it seems, until you put them together, at which point you challenge people's desire to have their cake and eat it too as the desert of a Free Lunch. But hey, if this is the best ya'll can come up with, then that's fine, because it means that our point stands. There is no actual subsidy to employers in the social safety net.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  9. #399
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:27 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    25,161

    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    which is why the majority of people on welfare hold jobs
    the jobs that you complain about. they can't make more than so much money or else everything is pulled out from under them.

  10. #400
    Sage
    Gimmesometruth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    US Southwest
    Last Seen
    03-23-17 @ 01:46 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    21,117

    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Oh, I agree politics can create and push price floors. I just don't see how a social safety net is a subsidy to employers of employees on them, given that it is a subsidy to the employee, and there is no forcing function that would, in the event of a partial loss of social support, force the employer to calculate and then increase wages commensurately. You seem to be arguing that there is one because "everyone knows that".
    Let me get this, you asked for a mechanism on how the decline in income could cause employers to increase wages, you agree a grassroots mw movement can cause this, but that doesn't satisfy your forcing.



    Not at all.
    Of course you did, I'll repost it:

    "The existence of serious welfare cliffs, for example, disincentivizes increasing ones' income."

    "Declining welfare cause less desire for income" is a completely indefensible position unless you are going claim everyone who experiences a decline in income becomes so depressed that they give up.



    That's interesting. Change "elderly and children" to "able-bodied low-income", and you've just made a very conservative argument .
    The sarcasm went right by you, and forcing folks off welfare (especially children and the elderly) during a recession/recovery is not only insane, it is heartless. It is more of your soup kitchens cause depressions solutions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

Page 40 of 45 FirstFirst ... 303839404142 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •