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Thread: Warren Buffett: $15 minimum wage will hurt the working class

  1. #121
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    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    all of these arguments suffer from the exact same fallacy he already outlined for you. Since you are unable to describe the forcing function that would actually cause Wal-Mart to raise or lower it's wages in inverse proportion to social subsidization of it's work force, simply repeating others who make the same failed argument doesn't count as a response, it just counts as doubling-down on an argument that has already been demonstrated to be false.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The business gave them a job. A business is not a safety net structure, it is a business. If the employees want more income, they need to improve their skill set, experience, etc. Because the alternative to a low paying job for someone who hasn't done that is not a good-paying-job, it is no job. If anything, the business is saving the taxpayers money by reducing the amount of support the low-skill workers they hire will require from the safety net, and helping them to develop the skills and experience that could one day get them off of public support alltogether.
    If you want somebody to work for you full-time, you need to pay them enough to, you know, eat.

    Or else they aren't going to work for you full-time.

    But these employers get away with paying less than that, because the taxpayers are picking up the slack.
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    Well, certainly the customer is not an N-word.
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    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    My lowest paid employee makes $14 to "print t-shirts". Every job in my shop requires a skilled graphics art professional. And no high school kid has the job skills that I require. I guess I could hire a high school kid to clean up or take out the trash, but I only need so much cleaning up and trashing removal. This ain't burger flipping.
    What?!? You refuse to hire people without the requisite skills and experience to make them beneficial to your business!?! But, but, but, businesses have to hire such workers! Else, um, well, else, um, well otherwise plans to immanentize the eschaton won't work!!!!
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    My lowest paid employee makes $14 to "print t-shirts". Every job in my shop requires a skilled graphics art professional. And no high school kid has the job skills that I require. I guess I could hire a high school kid to clean up or take out the trash, but I only need so much cleaning up and trashing removal. This ain't burger flipping.
    Lets use your business as an example then. Say the minimum is raised to $15. What happens? Obviously, the guy making $14 gets a dollar raise, but what happens to the rest of your employees who I assume are making $15+? Your skilled graphics art professionals aren't going to be to happy about now making as much as a 16 year old, unskilled mcDonalds burger flipper are they?

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    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    If you want somebody to work for you full-time, you need to pay them enough to, you know, eat.
    1. MW is plenty to eat.
    2. No you don't. Witness: high school kids, second income earners, interns.

    Or else they aren't going to work for you full-time.
    then supply and demand will drive up what I have to pay to attract full-time labor, now, won't I?

    But these employers get away with paying less than that, because the taxpayers are picking up the slack.
    That is false. Again, there is no forcing function that would require any of these employers to raise or lower their wages in inverse response to the safety net.

    Except - and this is a worthy point - to the degree that the safety net risks outbidding them for low-income labor. If you can make about as much or nothing at all sitting at home on your butt, there are plenty of people who will do that. But if we got rid of food stamps tomorrow, there is nothing that would force McDonalds or Wal Mart to calculate increase their wages to make up the loss to their workforce.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  6. #126
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    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    What?!? You refuse to hire people without the requisite skills and experience to make them beneficial to your business!?! But, but, but, businesses have to hire such workers! Else, um, well, else, um, well otherwise plans to immanentize the eschaton won't work!!!!
    Actually most of the people I have hired have little experience in my field. I hire good people at a decent wage and train them, usually going through three or four before I find a "keeper".

    Those who I find not to be suited to my industry typically will find employment in a field in which they are more suited for.
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    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  7. #127
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    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that's your forcing function? Demonstrate it. Please show me how either employees stop wanting higher wages when they get aid from a safety net structure
    Really? You just admitted it is a distortion of markets, but you still require me to explain how post tax income causes less demand for wage increases? Seriously? It is not within your abilities to work that out....even after admitting to it it being a distortion? FFS.
    or employers are forced to take a loss on employees when employees really want them to.
    Really want them to ....what?



    Well, that is true - and is true of any safety net. It keeps less productive citizens from fully suffering the consequences. But I'm willing to put up with that.
    I know, because you and your ilk realize it causes less pressure on wage demands.
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    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Lets use your business as an example then. Say the minimum is raised to $15. What happens? Obviously, the guy making $14 gets a dollar raise, but what happens to the rest of your employees who I assume are making $15+? Your skilled graphics art professionals aren't going to be to happy about now making as much as a 16 year old, unskilled mcDonalds burger flipper are they?
    Well, currently they are making a little less than double MW. Obviously imagep should increase the hourly wage of his workers to ~28 dollars an hour.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  9. #129
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    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Well, currently they are making a little less than double MW. Obviously imagep should increase the hourly wage of his workers to ~28 dollars an hour.
    Of course he will. After all, that is only fair. I cant wait to see how he plans to afford to do that, however.

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    Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    ​How low-wage employers cost taxpayers $153B a year - CBS News

    Walmart: America's real 'Welfare Queen'

    The Case Against Welfare | The moral case against welfare - tribunedigital-baltimoresun

    Economic perspectives against the welfare state - CSMonitor.com

    You conservatives are all alike. You want to run up the national debt and increase taxes to create a welfare state.

    I'm often accused of being a liberal, yet I don't support any form of means tested welfare. It simply locks people into poverty at the expense of the tax payer, while substantially increasing the profits of low paying employers.
    Obviously you either didn't read or understand the economist quoted in the article. They are subsidies to the employee, not the employer. Getting rid of them would not cause an increase in wage. Getting rid of the low wage employers wold cause an increase in the welfare bill.
    From the economist:
    A final line of argument is that these public assistance programs have become de-facto subsidies for low-wage employers. For a program to be a subsidy for an employer, it needs to lower wages.
    Therefore, SNAP is likely to raise, and not lower a worker’s reservation wages—

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