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Thread: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

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    FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Can't say I'm surprised.

    FBI admits Patriot Act snooping powers didn't crack any major terrorism cases - Washington Times

    FBI agents can’t point to any major terrorism cases they’ve cracked thanks to the key snooping powers in the Patriot Act, the Justice Department’s inspector general said in a report Thursday that could complicate efforts to keep key parts of the law operating. Inspector General Michael E. Horowitz said that between 2004 and 2009, the FBI tripled its use of bulk collection under Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which allows government agents to compel businesses to turn over records and documents, and increasingly scooped up records of Americans who had no ties to official terrorism investigations. The FBI did finally come up with procedures to try to minimize the information it was gathering on nontargets, but it took far too long, Mr. Horowitz said in the 77-page report, which comes just as Congress is trying to decide whether to extend, rewrite or entirely nix Section 215.

    Backers say the Patriot Act powers are critical and must be kept intact, particularly with the spread of the threat from terrorists. But opponents have doubted the efficacy of Section 215, particularly when it’s used to justify bulk data collection such as in the case of the National Security Agency’s phone metadata program, revealed in leaks from former government contractor Edward Snowden. The new report adds ammunition to those opponents, with the inspector general concluding that no major cases have been broken by use of the Patriot Act’s records-snooping provisions. “The agents we interviewed did not identify any major case developments that resulted from use of the records obtained in response to Section 215 orders,” the inspector general concluded — though he said agents did view the material they gathered as “valuable” in developing other leads or corroborating information.

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Can't say I'm surprised.

    FBI admits Patriot Act snooping powers didn't crack any major terrorism cases - Washington Times

    FBI agents can’t point to any major terrorism cases they’ve cracked thanks to the key snooping powers in the Patriot Act, the Justice Department’s inspector general said in a report Thursday that could complicate efforts to keep key parts of the law operating. Inspector General Michael E. Horowitz said that between 2004 and 2009, the FBI tripled its use of bulk collection under Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which allows government agents to compel businesses to turn over records and documents, and increasingly scooped up records of Americans who had no ties to official terrorism investigations. The FBI did finally come up with procedures to try to minimize the information it was gathering on nontargets, but it took far too long, Mr. Horowitz said in the 77-page report, which comes just as Congress is trying to decide whether to extend, rewrite or entirely nix Section 215.

    Backers say the Patriot Act powers are critical and must be kept intact, particularly with the spread of the threat from terrorists. But opponents have doubted the efficacy of Section 215, particularly when it’s used to justify bulk data collection such as in the case of the National Security Agency’s phone metadata program, revealed in leaks from former government contractor Edward Snowden. The new report adds ammunition to those opponents, with the inspector general concluding that no major cases have been broken by use of the Patriot Act’s records-snooping provisions. “The agents we interviewed did not identify any major case developments that resulted from use of the records obtained in response to Section 215 orders,” the inspector general concluded — though he said agents did view the material they gathered as “valuable” in developing other leads or corroborating information.

    Do you have a more reliable source for that?? That Washington times is not known for it's veracity.
    Knee-jerk anti-government sentiment is not a viable political philosophy.

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMOSS View Post
    Do you have a more reliable source for that?? That Washington times is not known for it's veracity.
    Was Rand's Stand Effective? FBI Admits No Major Cases Cracked with Patriot Act Snooping Powers - Fox Nation

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    In a day and age where partisanship seems to have penetrated every nook and cranny of our lives there are precious few opportunities for us to cast that aside and unite, together, around an issue that SHOULD receive unanimous support from EVERYONE. This is such an issue.

    The Patriot Act was a mistake and needs to expire. The very concept of data mining is evil.

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Can't say I'm surprised.

    FBI admits Patriot Act snooping powers didn't crack any major terrorism cases - Washington Times

    FBI agents can’t point to any major terrorism cases they’ve cracked thanks to the key snooping powers in the Patriot Act, the Justice Department’s inspector general said in a report Thursday that could complicate efforts to keep key parts of the law operating. Inspector General Michael E. Horowitz said that between 2004 and 2009, the FBI tripled its use of bulk collection under Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which allows government agents to compel businesses to turn over records and documents, and increasingly scooped up records of Americans who had no ties to official terrorism investigations. The FBI did finally come up with procedures to try to minimize the information it was gathering on nontargets, but it took far too long, Mr. Horowitz said in the 77-page report, which comes just as Congress is trying to decide whether to extend, rewrite or entirely nix Section 215.

    Backers say the Patriot Act powers are critical and must be kept intact, particularly with the spread of the threat from terrorists. But opponents have doubted the efficacy of Section 215, particularly when it’s used to justify bulk data collection such as in the case of the National Security Agency’s phone metadata program, revealed in leaks from former government contractor Edward Snowden. The new report adds ammunition to those opponents, with the inspector general concluding that no major cases have been broken by use of the Patriot Act’s records-snooping provisions. “The agents we interviewed did not identify any major case developments that resulted from use of the records obtained in response to Section 215 orders,” the inspector general concluded — though he said agents did view the material they gathered as “valuable” in developing other leads or corroborating information.
    So, if I've got this straight, the proposal here is that the Patriot Act should be abolished because no major terrorist threats were unearthed up until 2009, a full six years ago. Anyone have any relevant recent information? I certainly know that several plots in Canada have been uncovered in the past several years using the provisions of similar legislation.

    And let's just think about the 2004 to 2009 time frame. I'm pretty sure many of the world's terrorists were spending most of their time trying to stay alive in the Middle East and to fight off coalition forces in Afghanistan and Iraq. With the draw down in troop levels on those two fronts and the civil war in Syria, terrorists since 2009 have had more time and opportunity on their hands as also witnessed by the rise of ISIL/ISIS/IS in Syria/Iraq.

    I'd bet there isn't anyone on this site - I'll give you maybe one or two - who could actually claim how the Patriot Act has directly, adversely, affected your personal life and day to day living. For the vast majority of people, well above 90%, it's a non-issue. But just like Gitmo and other issues Americans like to wail endlessly about, you'll soon be blaming Obama or the next President should some other terrorist action take place on American soil as a result of not being vigilant and not having the necessary tools to make that vigilance effective - these are the same whiners who bleated endlessly that Bush was responsible for 9/11 because he didn't have the necessary intelligence to stop it.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    So, if I've got this straight, the proposal here is that the Patriot Act should be abolished because no major terrorist threats were unearthed up until 2009, a full six years ago. Anyone have any relevant recent information? I certainly know that several plots in Canada have been uncovered in the past several years using the provisions of similar legislation.

    And let's just think about the 2004 to 2009 time frame. I'm pretty sure many of the world's terrorists were spending most of their time trying to stay alive in the Middle East and to fight off coalition forces in Afghanistan and Iraq. With the draw down in troop levels on those two fronts and the civil war in Syria, terrorists since 2009 have had more time and opportunity on their hands as also witnessed by the rise of ISIL/ISIS/IS in Syria/Iraq.

    I'd bet there isn't anyone on this site - I'll give you maybe one or two - who could actually claim how the Patriot Act has directly, adversely, affected your personal life and day to day living. For the vast majority of people, well above 90%, it's a non-issue. But just like Gitmo and other issues Americans like to wail endlessly about, you'll soon be blaming Obama or the next President should some other terrorist action take place on American soil as a result of not being vigilant and not having the necessary tools to make that vigilance effective - these are the same whiners who bleated endlessly that Bush was responsible for 9/11 because he didn't have the necessary intelligence to stop it.
    I will only speak for myself here when I say that what is in bold is NOT the reason I think The Patriot Act should be abolished. It should be abolished because it is an infringement of liberty, it has and will continue to be abused, and it gave rise to the practice of data mining.

    The very concept of data mining is evil.

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    I will only speak for myself here when I say that what is in bold is NOT the reason I think The Patriot Act should be abolished. It should be abolished because it is an infringement of liberty, it has and will continue to be abused, and it gave rise to the practice of data mining.

    The very concept of data mining is evil.
    That's fair - as long as you're also prepared to accept the inevitable increase in insecurity that will result and you're also prepared to hold your government and its agents blameless for that increase.

    And I'm curious - how has "data-mining" directly and adversely affected you personally? You are aware that the very fact that you're on the internet now viewing a site, you're likely having your usage and travels monitored and mined by private businesses and entities that have nothing to do with the Patriot Act.

    I could argue the same against policing of all sorts - police patrols - CCTV cameras both public and privately held - security guards in businesses/shopping centers, etc. It's a trade off I'm prepared to make.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Since it has been shown that 60% of Fox News claims are inaccurate, that isn't much better than the yellow journalism rag run by the moonies. I mean, it just points back to the original article from the Washington times, and is written by someone that is writing from a right wing blog. Do you have an independent source? A source that says 'According to the Washington time' is not really providing a reliable source, you know.
    Knee-jerk anti-government sentiment is not a viable political philosophy.

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMOSS View Post
    Since it has been shown that 60% of Fox News claims are inaccurate, that isn't much better than the yellow journalism rag run by the moonies. I mean, it just points back to the original article from the Washington times, and is written by someone that is writing from a right wing blog. Do you have an independent source? A source that says 'According to the Washington time' is not really providing a reliable source, you know.
    I didn't realize The Washington Times isn't a reliable news source. At this moment in time I do not have another source.

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    In a day and age where partisanship seems to have penetrated every nook and cranny of our lives there are precious few opportunities for us to cast that aside and unite, together, around an issue that SHOULD receive unanimous support from EVERYONE. This is such an issue.

    The Patriot Act was a mistake and needs to expire. The very concept of data mining is evil.

    It is an intrusion on privacy, and does need to expire. However, data mining happens all the time around you. For example, my mother was telling me when she went to the grocery story, and got her groceries, the coupons that spat out automatically were all the things that she normally buys, down to the exact brands. That's data mining right there. If you have a cell phone, the phone companies knows what your location was for the last year. If you browse the internet, you will get targeted add. That's data mining.

    Or, is it you object to 'the government using data mining' , rather than coporations?
    Knee-jerk anti-government sentiment is not a viable political philosophy.

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