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Thread: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    I didn't realize The Washington Times isn't a reliable news source. At this moment in time I do not have another source.
    The Washington times was started by Sun Yen Moon, and quite often promotes right wing conspiracy theories as fact. They promoted the 9/11 being an inside job, and claim Obama is a Muslim and was born in Kenya (never mind he has pork BBQ's at the white house).

    While they often will have accurate news articles, there are a fair number that are totally off the wall. That's why I want an independent source when I see a news article from them.
    Knee-jerk anti-government sentiment is not a viable political philosophy.

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    "Inspector General Michael E. Horowitz said that between 2004 and 2009, the FBI tripled its use of bulk collection under Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which allows government agents to compel businesses to turn over records and documents, and increasingly scooped up records of Americans who had no ties to official terrorism investigations."

    I hate these kind of stories. When did he testify, 6 years ago? That's when his data is from. Maybe they don't have any analysts that could actually look between 2009 and 2015.

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    That's fair - as long as you're also prepared to accept the inevitable increase in insecurity that will result and you're also prepared to hold your government and its agents blameless for that increase.

    And I'm curious - how has "data-mining" directly and adversely affected you personally? You are aware that the very fact that you're on the internet now viewing a site, you're likely having your usage and travels monitored and mined by private businesses and entities that have nothing to do with the Patriot Act.

    I could argue the same against policing of all sorts - police patrols - CCTV cameras both public and privately held - security guards in businesses/shopping centers, etc. It's a trade off I'm prepared to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMOSS View Post
    It is an intrusion on privacy, and does need to expire. However, data mining happens all the time around you. For example, my mother was telling me when she went to the grocery story, and got her groceries, the coupons that spat out automatically were all the things that she normally buys, down to the exact brands. That's data mining right there. If you have a cell phone, the phone companies knows what your location was for the last year. If you browse the internet, you will get targeted add. That's data mining.

    Or, is it you object to 'the government using data mining' , rather than coporations?
    What has come out about this program thus far is a clear cut invasion of privacy and reason enough to **** can the whole thing, IMO, but what truly scares the hell out of me are the applications and uses of it that haven't even been thought of yet.

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    What has come out about this program thus far is a clear cut invasion of privacy and reason enough to **** can the whole thing, IMO, but what truly scares the hell out of me are the applications and uses of it that haven't even been thought of yet.

    If you want to truly get out of the whole data-mining concept, you have to get rid of data mining from corporations and ad companies too. But, if you use the internet, use a credit card, or a 'membership card' for shopping at a grocery story, or use a cell phone (even a dumb one, not a smartphone), then corporate America is already data mining the heck out of you.

    You would be SHOCKED to know what is out there about you. For example, if you have a cell phone, in the bowls of the various phone companies information is the cell tower reception data on direction for each cell tower to your phone. They triangulate, and can tell where you have been , to the exact house , for probably at least the last 6 months. It would not be difficult to write a program that would be able to spit out a report to track the location of any specific cell phone. And that is even without it being a smartphone that the gps is enabled on
    Knee-jerk anti-government sentiment is not a viable political philosophy.

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    What has come out about this program thus far is a clear cut invasion of privacy and reason enough to **** can the whole thing, IMO, but what truly scares the hell out of me are the applications and uses of it that haven't even been thought of yet.
    Perhaps you're younger than I am - I have no fear of what the government is doing in this regard - hell, government agents would die of boredom following my every move. But I don't object to majority rule and if enough people feel as you do then by all means elect representatives who'll move to stop or curtail these encroachments. I'm also not a person who's frequently or ever in situations where a terrorist may take my life, so lack of these programs won't adversely affect me personally.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    And I'm curious - how has "data-mining" directly and adversely affected you personally?
    The very fact that my government is overstepping its authority by conducting an unwarranted and unreasonable search of my affairs is a direct and adverse affect on me personally. That alone is enough, no other adverse affect is necessary.

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    The very fact that my government is overstepping its authority by conducting an unwarranted and unreasonable search of my affairs is a direct and adverse affect on me personally. That alone is enough, no other adverse affect is necessary.
    We shouldn't have to justify our right to privacy.

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    The very fact that my government is overstepping its authority by conducting an unwarranted and unreasonable search of my affairs is a direct and adverse affect on me personally. That alone is enough, no other adverse affect is necessary.
    The way that 'meta data' works is that it looks at patterns in the whole data, and there is just too much data there for any specific individual to be targeted, as it it being used now. The metadata allows them to find patterns linking specific key people togather to know if/when they should pay stricter attention to specific people, and as an 'early warning' system if certain groups communicate with each other more. As such, the way it's being used now doesn't overly intrude on the average person. THe problem is that the potential is there. It STILL should be terminated, but the intrusion on your personal business is not there. It just COULD be there with this data, and that is concerning enough.

    The problems I see with the laws is not that the government has access to it, but that the companies are allowed to keep it and act on it in their own data collection schemes. It's not enough to restrict the government from it. There should be regulations concerning it for how companies collect and use it. Why just control the government, when we should be regulating corporations about it too?
    Knee-jerk anti-government sentiment is not a viable political philosophy.

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    The very fact that my government is overstepping its authority by conducting an unwarranted and unreasonable search of my affairs is a direct and adverse affect on me personally. That alone is enough, no other adverse affect is necessary.
    If the government is following legislation that hasn't as yet been ruled unconstitutional, how is it "overstepping its authority"? If you believe the government is "overstepping its authority", what makes you think it will stop doing it if the Patriot Act is repealed or isn't renewed?
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Perhaps you're younger than I am - I have no fear of what the government is doing in this regard - hell, government agents would die of boredom following my every move. But I don't object to majority rule and if enough people feel as you do then by all means elect representatives who'll move to stop or curtail these encroachments. I'm also not a person who's frequently or ever in situations where a terrorist may take my life, so lack of these programs won't adversely affect me personally.
    But you know it isn't about you, don't you?

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