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Thread: ISIS controls half of Syrian territory, monitor says

  1. #171
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    Re: ISIS controls half of Syrian territory, monitor says

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    couldn't disagree with you more about undermining "dictators" forr "democracy"

    It doesn't reduce Salafi jihad (ISIL) , it doesn't translate into "democracy" anywhere I can remember either.

    I much respect your ideas/research, but that is a basic neo-con flawed argument..
    Best to think of the Powell Doctrine ("Pottery Barn Rule") instead: "you break it you own it"
    The way I see it, any policy that relies on intimidation and repression to work is going to fail in the long run. Consider how in Yugoslavia, Tito was unable to prevent eventual ethnic strife despite decades of fairly benevolent dictatorship. Authoritarian regimes may provide stability and even peace while they exist, but all they serve to do is create more violent extremists. They cannot and should not be permanent solutions to Islamist tendencies. I'm hardly a neocon, but I recognize that representative government is the only way to reduce the grievances of people who may otherwise turn to groups like ISIS to feel like they have power over their own lives.
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  2. #172
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    Re: ISIS controls half of Syrian territory, monitor says

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya IC. The bolded put that in perspective.



    But the Obama administration has continued to pursue a "one Iraq" policy, routing all assistance through Baghdad.....snip~
    Evening MMC; I think the single Iraq policy was there before Obama. I seem to remember a discussion years ago on DP and I believed then that it should split into separate sectors. I make no anti Bush or anti Obama point - just that it seemed general US policy and it also confirms that the US would not wish to see billions spent and lives sacrificed as a wasted effort.

    Time to rethink US policy in Iraq

    Washington’s policy toward Iraq has been consistently focused on and committed to a unified Iraq since the US-led invasion in 2003. America has poured billions of dollars and thousands of lives into ensuring the survival of this artificial, unworkable state.

    The question is: how much time and resources do you invest in something that does not work? By doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, US policy in Iraq is subscribing to Einstein’s definition of insanity. It is pouring more arms and financial aid into Baghdad, hoping for a different outcome only to prove its vision for the future of Iraq.

    --snip--

    Reinforcing Iraq’ unity by forcing Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish leaders to work for a goal they don’t believe in, has led to further polarization of society and extreme animosity toward an “Iraqi identity” that continues to be imposed on various ethnicities and sects.

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  3. #173
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    Re: ISIS controls half of Syrian territory, monitor says

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    The way I see it, any policy that relies on intimidation and repression to work is going to fail in the long run. Consider how in Yugoslavia, Tito was unable to prevent eventual ethnic strife despite decades of fairly benevolent dictatorship. Authoritarian regimes may provide stability and even peace while they exist, but all they serve to do is create more violent extremists. They cannot and should not be permanent solutions to Islamist tendencies. I'm hardly a neocon, but I recognize that representative government is the only way to reduce the grievances of people who may otherwise turn to groups like ISIS to feel like they have power over their own lives.
    yes. Yugoslavia - but that was so called "balkanization" -
    long term cobbling together of disparate regions. or even nations.
    I know you're not a neo-con,and it wasn't meant that way - except to point out the idea that overthrowing any gov't just to impose democracy is exactly that idea.

    I remember talking to you about Libya a long time ago, and that is a good ex. of why overthrowing dictators for humanitarian grounds is a bad idea.
    If nothing else that "Pottery barn Rule" does come into play - also it's best for the peoples of any nation to take their own fate into their hands - they then take ownership of their future.
    I don't want to go over each point with you,other then to speak in the general ideas of why nation building seldom works.
    Feel free to disagree however, and i'll try to get back to you..

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    Re: ISIS controls half of Syrian territory, monitor says

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Evening MMC; I think the single Iraq policy was there before Obama. I seem to remember a discussion years ago on DP and I believed then that it should split into separate sectors. I make no anti Bush or anti Obama point - just that it seemed general US policy and it also confirms that the US would not wish to see billions spent and lives sacrificed as a wasted effort.
    It was.....but then BOs own Team have been telling him since 2013. Moreover the Shia Militias have declared us an Enemy, again.



    American intelligence officials have assessed for some time that Iraq is unlikely ever again to function as the multi-ethnic nation-state it once was, and that any future political arrangement would have to grant significant local autonomy to the three main groups,_Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds.

    Democratic Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, an Iraq war veteran, cast doubt on the U.S. preference to deal only with the Shiite-dominated government in Baghdad, calling instead for directly arming both the Kurds in the north and Sunni tribes that have asked for help in beating back the Islamic State group.

    "These Iraqi security forces have cut and run," Gabbard said. She criticized Baghdad's close links with Iran-backed Shiite militias that have declared themselves enemies of the United States....snip~

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    Re: ISIS controls half of Syrian territory, monitor says

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    It was.....but then BOs own Team have been telling him since 2013. Moreover the Shia Militias have declared us an Enemy, again.



    American intelligence officials have assessed for some time that Iraq is unlikely ever again to function as the multi-ethnic nation-state it once was, and that any future political arrangement would have to grant significant local autonomy to the three main groups,_Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds.

    Democratic Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, an Iraq war veteran, cast doubt on the U.S. preference to deal only with the Shiite-dominated government in Baghdad, calling instead for directly arming both the Kurds in the north and Sunni tribes that have asked for help in beating back the Islamic State group.

    "These Iraqi security forces have cut and run," Gabbard said. She criticized Baghdad's close links with Iran-backed Shiite militias that have declared themselves enemies of the United States....snip~
    Agreed, but in recent years I think the US has spent too much financially and in terms of the blood of its own to walk away or change tactics. That goes for whichever politician and party your next president comes from too. It won't be down to party politics to change tack.

    Those Iran backed Shiite militias are also the only ones capable of standing up to ISIS or even removing them from some of the territory ISIS took. There's too much bad history for the US to work openly with Iran now - just look at the hatred poured on Obama for talking to the Iranians about their nuclear ambitions.
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    Re: ISIS controls half of Syrian territory, monitor says

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    It was.....but then BOs own Team have been telling him since 2013. Moreover the Shia Militias have declared us an Enemy, again.



    American intelligence officials have assessed for some time that Iraq is unlikely ever again to function as the multi-ethnic nation-state it once was, and that any future political arrangement would have to grant significant local autonomy to the three main groups,_Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds.

    Democratic Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, an Iraq war veteran, cast doubt on the U.S. preference to deal only with the Shiite-dominated government in Baghdad, calling instead for directly arming both the Kurds in the north and Sunni tribes that have asked for help in beating back the Islamic State group.

    "These Iraqi security forces have cut and run," Gabbard said. She criticized Baghdad's close links with Iran-backed Shiite militias that have declared themselves enemies of the United States....snip~
    In the agreement Obama is attempting to negotiate with Iran, have any suggestions been made that it might be nice if they stopped funding the terrorists that hate us? Sheesh!

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    Re: ISIS controls half of Syrian territory, monitor says

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    In the agreement Obama is attempting to negotiate with Iran, have any suggestions been made that it might be nice if they stopped funding the terrorists that hate us? Sheesh!
    Nope Lady P......BO says that's a separate Issue with Iran. We be talking Nukes. Not funding terrorists.

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    Re: ISIS controls half of Syrian territory, monitor says

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Nope Lady P......BO says that's a separate Issue with Iran. We be talking Nukes. Not funding terrorists.
    No matter. They'd probably tell us no anyway!

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    Re: ISIS controls half of Syrian territory, monitor says

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    The Civil War started over food riots, an out growth of the Arab Spring. Yes Qatar, and Iran et all kept it going as a proxy civil war
    and I don't think the west meddling was a turning point, even if it was stupid.
    The so called "Arab Spring", food riots, protests etc, were exploited by Western States as well as a few Arab States that have had regime change ambitions in Syria for a very long time.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: ISIS controls half of Syrian territory, monitor says

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    In the agreement Obama is attempting to negotiate with Iran, have any suggestions been made that it might be nice if they stopped funding the terrorists that hate us? Sheesh!
    Prolly not anymore then we've asked Saudi Arabia to stop funding terrorists that hate us. Hell, we can't even stop funding terrorists that hate us!!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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