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McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a rise

Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

Liberals have absolutely no problem spending someone else's money without consideration to the consequences or the realities of business ownership.

It's a problem. Everyone who can use google is suddenly a genius. In my other business I used to have people tell me what kind of raise they needed because of what their expenses were. They were generally marginal employees because the really good ones made lots of money. I always told them that the best way to make money in any job was to make themselves indispensable. Some of them had the mindset they were paid x so they would only do y. Most of them ended up looking for job z.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

What? where in the hell did you get that information. The highest operating expenses in any business is labor. Have you ever seen a profit and loss statement? Why don't you start your own business and pay unskilled workers exactly what you think is fair, spending your own money vs. someone else's? Are you telling us that the costs of a burger exceeds 7.25 per hour?

Did you read my reference? I guess you didn't. Here's another that shows that yes, food and paper costs are higher than labor costs for a McDonald's restaurant.

And FYI we do own two small businesses - one's the storefront I'm in right now where we sell airline ticketing, package shipping, and money remittance, and the other business is in our home where we care for an elderly woman with dementia and for a medically-fragile young adult.

Next time, try asking first before you make assumptions. But then, that's part of what made me become a liberal....
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

I am in the restaurant business. I have two stores and this summer will have three. I am familiar with restaurant accounting. Your reference has a number of factual errors one of which is labor burden which is a question you didn't answer. In addition, I don't believe that they ran a twenty percent labor cost including management labor. So please tell me what labor burden is on fifteen dollars an hour or stick to talking about something you know about.

YOUR labor may cost relatively more in comparison to food costs than it does for McDonald's. It may also depend not only on the type of food that is sold, but also on the volume of what food is sold at what prices relative to one's labor force. I didn't make the claim that food costs more than labor for McDonald's (though I should have said "food and paper") - you can find it here. I'd say that McDonald's higher food-to-labor cost is probably because they sell a heck of a lot of food relative to the size of their labor force.

And good for you that you own two - and soon, three - stores. I've only got one store (though not a restaurant) and a business at home. Also, you may want to take a look at your labor turnover costs - if your turnover costs are high, you may be interested to know what the Harvard Business Review found about paying higher wages - Costco actually saves money by paying higher wages.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

YOUR labor may cost relatively more in comparison to food costs than it does for McDonald's. It may also depend not only on the type of food that is sold, but also on the volume of what food is sold at what prices relative to one's labor force. I didn't make the claim that food costs more than labor for McDonald's (though I should have said "food and paper") - you can find it here. I'd say that McDonald's higher food-to-labor cost is probably because they sell a heck of a lot of food relative to the size of their labor force.

And good for you that you own two - and soon, three - stores. I've only got one store (though not a restaurant) and a business at home. Also, you may want to take a look at your labor turnover costs - if your turnover costs are high, you may be interested to know what the Harvard Business Review found about paying higher wages - Costco actually saves money by paying higher wages.

Thanks for answering my question about labor burden. Wait, you didn't.

There are industry numbers which apply to every restaurant, regardless of company. Labor is labor. regardless of concept labor has to be in the mid twenties and if it's higher the restaurant doesn't make money. Food cost depends on menu. Pizza and pasta places run a food cost in the mid to high twenties. Steak houses run food costs in the low 30's. Occupancy costs should be under ten percent. There are lots of other costs from debt financing to disposable costs. McDonalds doesn't make anything to speak of on food. All of their profit is in soda which costs pennies and sells for dollars. It doesn't matter whose restaurant we are talking about, the numbers are common.

Labor is a semi controlable, so is food. The only thing you've said that is close to correct is gross volume affects net profit. Being semi controllable however, it doesn't affect labor percentage. In McDonald's case there is also a difference in corporate stores and franchises. Any article that says their labor cost is twenty percent is playing you for a fool. They won't hit twenty percent with labor burden and management. Their food cost is at least twenty four percent with those items if they are a high volume store and they are managed tightly. You can look for studies from liberal institutions that attempt to paint a rosy picture about the minimum wage but, just as the Motley Fool did, they cherry pick data I've been in the restaurant business several times in my life and the rest of it owned a business that built furniture for chain restaurants, some of the largest in the world. I know thousands of operators and quite a bit about actual numbers..

The restaurant business has the highest failure rate of any small business. The government has already crippled it with insurance costs and more restrictive dram shop laws. Adding additional labor costs is just going to cause closures, as it has in Washington. Increasing the minimum wage is a bad idea.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

Did you read my reference? I guess you didn't. Here's another that shows that yes, food and paper costs are higher than labor costs for a McDonald's restaurant.

And FYI we do own two small businesses - one's the storefront I'm in right now where we sell airline ticketing, package shipping, and money remittance, and the other business is in our home where we care for an elderly woman with dementia and for a medically-fragile young adult.

Next time, try asking first before you make assumptions. But then, that's part of what made me become a liberal....

please show me those costs on a financial statement. Costs of goods aren't an expense and are paid for out of the revenue for that item. Over and above those costs are the monthly operating expenses so before spending someone else's money I suggest you employ some people, create a financial statement, and learn about business operating expenses.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

please show me those costs on a financial statement. Costs of goods aren't an expense and are paid for out of the revenue for that item. Over and above those costs are the monthly operating expenses so before spending someone else's money I suggest you employ some people, create a financial statement, and learn about business operating expenses.

I just read an article about McDonalds finances as it relates to the studies that claimed how much mor a bid mac would be. This is the meaningful paragraph.

But lost in this discussion is a fundamental misunderstanding of McDonald’s business. The company owns just 20 percent of its restaurants. Most of the $27.6 billion in revenue it made last year came from franchise royalties and rent paid by franchisees. So a researcher can’t simply look at the company’s annual report, calculate the salary number, and then extrapolate that for an entire system. McDonald’s is a totally different business from the one run by franchisees.

That McDonald's Salary Study Gets It Wrong - Restaurant Industry Insight, News and Analysis - July 2013

It also said their labor cost is 20% which I'm not prepared to believe unless I saw few monthlies.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

The restaurant business has the highest failure rate of any small business. The government has already crippled it with insurance costs and more restrictive dram shop laws. Adding additional labor costs is just going to cause closures, as it has in Washington. Increasing the minimum wage is a bad idea.

I'll be the first to tell you that you know quite a bit more about the restaurant business than I do - no argument there. Thing is, the fact that you know more about that business doesn't mean that you have a better understanding of the overall economics of the minimum wage hike.

I'm going to go into generalities here, and I can well understand if you take a truly dim view of what I'm saying. In my experience - and remember, this is generally speaking - conservatives have a great eye for detail. If you want something run as efficiently as possible, get a conservative - whether for business or mechanics or whatever. Conservatives are better than liberals for correctly interpreting what's right in front of them, and conservatives look at liberals and wonder "how the heck couldn't you see that for what it is?" This is one reason why (and again, this is IMO) a lot of conservatives see snow and believe that's proof that global warming is a crock - they see the here and now and could give a tinker's damn about what's going on on the other side of the planet.

Liberals, however, are generally better at big-picture concepts, and hate nothing more than getting lost in the details. Sometimes that bites us in the ass, true, but we also find that sometimes, paying too much attention to the details keeps one from getting a better grasp of the whole - not seeing the forest for the trees, as it were. That, and money seems to mean less to us than it does to conservatives. This is why we tend to take lower-paying jobs such as teaching or scientific research or social work. It's what we like to do, even when it pays less.

Where I'm going with all this is that you know better than I do how it affects your particular industry...but your industry, as big as it is, is but a small part of the greater whole. What we liberals see is if the entry-level workers in every industry (and not just the restaurant industry), they will still spend almost every penny they get - all the money will still go back to the stores, the restaurants, the entertainment industry, whatever. The businesses will pay their entry-level staff more, but there are more people with money who are spending that money. Will businesses automatically raise their prices in consonance with the pay raises? Sure, some, perhaps most will...but then there's that little thing called 'market forces' at work, and those businesses that figure out what corners can be cut, how to run things more efficiently, will refrain from raising their prices too high...and competition does the rest.

A rising tide lifts all boats...and we've seen it before. This minimum wage hike isn't much different from raising taxes - it's still a form of monetary redistribution (which words makes conservatives hurl). But again, it's not as if the extra money these entry-level workers are getting paid is somehow being poured down a pit - they spend almost every penny, and it's the businesses they go to that are the beneficiary. Including your own.

And if you need to see proof of this, just compare the first-world democracies to third-world democracies. The first-world democracies all have high effective minimum wages (except for Germany, which has very strong unionization)...and they are all (even Greece) retaining first-world status after five decades or more of this kind of economic model. Third-world democracies have no significant minimum wage...and as a result, their workers are paid not much more than starvation wages - I've seen it with my own eyes.

So...yeah, you might be dismissing all this with a disgusted ha-rumph, but that's what I see...and the economies of all the world are my proof.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

please show me those costs on a financial statement. Costs of goods aren't an expense and are paid for out of the revenue for that item. Over and above those costs are the monthly operating expenses so before spending someone else's money I suggest you employ some people, create a financial statement, and learn about business operating expenses.

Hm. Let me see here. I can take your word for the costs of running McDonald's...or I can take the word of these people who run the site for the reference I gave you.

Looking at their qualifications, and bearing in mind some of the things I've seen you post in the past...I'll take their word for it.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

I'll be the first to tell you that you know quite a bit more about the restaurant business than I do - no argument there. Thing is, the fact that you know more about that business doesn't mean that you have a better understanding of the overall economics of the minimum wage hike.

Where I'm going with all this is that you know better than I do how it affects your particular industry...but your industry, as big as it is, is but a small part of the greater whole. What we liberals see is if the entry-level workers in every industry (and not just the restaurant industry), they will still spend almost every penny they get - all the money will still go back to the stores, the restaurants, the entertainment industry, whatever. The businesses will pay their entry-level staff more, but there are more people with money who are spending that money. Will businesses automatically raise their prices in consonance with the pay raises? Sure, some, perhaps most will...but then there's that little thing called 'market forces' at work, and those businesses that figure out what corners can be cut, how to run things more efficiently, will refrain from raising their prices too high...and competition does the rest.

A rising tide lifts all boats...and we've seen it before. This minimum wage hike isn't much different from raising taxes - it's still a form of monetary redistribution (which words makes conservatives hurl). But again, it's not as if the extra money these entry-level workers are getting paid is somehow being poured down a pit - they spend almost every penny, and it's the businesses they go to that are the beneficiary. Including your own.

And if you need to see proof of this, just compare the first-world democracies to third-world democracies. The first-world democracies all have high effective minimum wages (except for Germany, which has very strong unionization)...and they are all (even Greece) retaining first-world status after five decades or more of this kind of economic model. Third-world democracies have no significant minimum wage...and as a result, their workers are paid not much more than starvation wages - I've seen it with my own eyes.

So...yeah, you might be dismissing all this with a disgusted ha-rumph, but that's what I see...and the economies of all the world are my proof.

I have a very good friend who is very liberal. We were talking about something political and he said something which I think describes the political dichotomy perfectly. He said I don't know what I think but I know how I feel. This is the way liberals feel about the minimum wage. They feel that entry level workers need more money but they don't think about the industries affected. I'm tired of saying this. You can't uncouple productivity and wages. If a job doesn't financially justify itself financially it will go away and minimum wage becomes unemployment.

If you want to raise all boats and see entry level jobs pay more there is only one way that's sustainable. Full employment. While we have successfully transformed outr economy to a service economy and away from manufacturing, primarily because of labor costs, growth of the economy is what we need. The market will take care of wages if there is competition for employees. It's happened in my furniture manufacturing business and it's happening in North Dakotas oil fields. Bernie Sanders says that the real unemployment number is thirteen percent. The reason is the administrations management of the economy. Wall Street is doing great and main street not so much. Wall street is succeeding because Janet Yellen keeps pumping and is keeping interests artificially low. Printing all that cash won't end well. The health insurance law prohibits growth and is making a mess of the insurance industry. We have taken all the wrong financial steps to recover from the great recession.

So, some people are suffering and Obama believes that Keynesian economics has a better feel than real prow business, pro growth policies because, God forbid, people who take risks and own businesses might make more than people at the lower end of the socioeconomic ladder. I guess that throws the rising tide theory out the window.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

Why don't you look to see how much it really would raise prices according to The Motley Fool.

That article seems insufficient. How about the minimum wage worker at the farms McDonalds gets the food from. The cost of their food goes up. How about the MW increases impact on the cost of the manufacture of the paper goods. Etc, etc.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

Congrats while you worked in the 1960s. The fact you think $15/hr is even a high wage(depending upon location) for entry level really says a lot about how in touch you are with the average work force.

Sometimes there are not the options available for people and that is something many on this board are apparently ignorant towards.

I never said 15.00 an hour was a high wage. I still maintain that anyone staying in an entry level position is not motivated or has reached their level of incompetency.

I AM out of touch with the work force today. I AM RETIRED!!!!! I spent a long time saving my money so I could RETIRE. We lived well below our means for decades to save for retirement. When I got back from Iraq the Army said I my hearing was shot so they retired me. I worked as a roofer, taco bender, steel worker, auto mechanic, carpet layer, framer, electrician, bucked hay, day labor doing whatever they had for me that day and finally aircraft mechanic. I took a lot of low paying jobs just to eat and pay for gas. That is how you earn something. Nobody is owed anything. Nobody deserves anything until they earn it.

Oh yeah, in two years my wife will retire too and both of us will be RETIRED!!! Just two old farts and a dog wandering around in the mountains enjoying being RETIRED!!!!

My first job was at Taco Bell at 3.65 an hour, that was in the 70's.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

$3.65/hr in the 1970s? Adjusted for inflation that would be a good starting wage today, well above the current federal minimum, even if we get very generous and use 1979's dollar as a point of reference.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

Can I get a different link than heritage? Sorry they are a bit on the... make up facts as we go side of things. :)

Oh please. Stop embarassing your self. When Heritage states a fact, it's fact.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

Why $15? Why not a 10% increase or 20%? I never got a 20% raise but they deserve one and I don't I guess. But why not $17.49? Why $15? Who decided on that number? Maybe a nationwide boycott of chain businesses would crack their backs as they dump good money on lazy people. Then Obama could step in and guarantee people $50K/yr. whether they work or not.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

Oh please. Stop embarassing your self. When Heritage states a fact, it's fact.

I'm sorry but no it isn't. They have lied on many occasions and fudged facts when it has fit their agenda. Let me know if you find a better source than something funded by rich conservatives to promote their agenda.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

You really don't seem to have a problem spending someone else's money on issues you don't truly understand. You judge everyone else by your own standards not realizing that not everyone else has your cost of living. You and liberalism go well together, all knowing, all caring, and yet never solving any social problem with all those good intentions.
My cost of living is significantly lower than most in my area due to the lack of debt. That being said, when I lived in the Midwest, the cost of living was significantly higher due to the lower wages. If I was doing the same job back in the Midwest that I am doing here I'd be maybe making 2/3rd of what I do now. Which would mean zero mobility chance even with little to no debt.

Economically you can't uncouple wages and production. It's unsustainable.
That isn't true at all and that is the point of what the minimum wage did. Sadly however, businesses have since made it stagnant(Lobbying) and that is why it isn't increasing for inflation like it should be.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

I never said 15.00 an hour was a high wage. I still maintain that anyone staying in an entry level position is not motivated or has reached their level of incompetency.

I AM out of touch with the work force today. I AM RETIRED!!!!! I spent a long time saving my money so I could RETIRE. We lived well below our means for decades to save for retirement. When I got back from Iraq the Army said I my hearing was shot so they retired me. I worked as a roofer, taco bender, steel worker, auto mechanic, carpet layer, framer, electrician, bucked hay, day labor doing whatever they had for me that day and finally aircraft mechanic. I took a lot of low paying jobs just to eat and pay for gas. That is how you earn something. Nobody is owed anything. Nobody deserves anything until they earn it.

Oh yeah, in two years my wife will retire too and both of us will be RETIRED!!! Just two old farts and a dog wandering around in the mountains enjoying being RETIRED!!!!

My first job was at Taco Bell at 3.65 an hour, that was in the 70's.

Then you are out of touch with the common work force and have been for several decades. You are old enough at this point that you have lost touch with minimum wage workers.

Fyi, in 1970 your 3.65 is equivlent to $22.90 today(47,000$/yr). So not only did you make significantly more than $15/hr but that was solid middle class, working at taco bell. Today that is barely above the poverty line 7.25(15,080$/yr).

CPI Inflation Calculator

Impressive eh?

I'd totally approve wages being what they were in the 1970s, adjusted for inflation.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

My cost of living is significantly lower than most in my area due to the lack of debt. That being said, when I lived in the Midwest, the cost of living was significantly higher due to the lower wages. If I was doing the same job back in the Midwest that I am doing here I'd be maybe making 2/3rd of what I do now. Which would mean zero mobility chance even with little to no debt.


That isn't true at all and that is the point of what the minimum wage did. Sadly however, businesses have since made it stagnant(Lobbying) and that is why it isn't increasing for inflation like it should be.

Your cost of living is yours and to pretend that you know what others have for a cost of living is typical liberalism but thanks for admitting that every state has a different cost of living and thus every state can do what your did. No one needs the federal bureaucrats in D.C. to tell a private business in your state what to pay its workers. That is up to the people of the state, not the federal government. There are more than half the states in the nation that have a minimum wage higher than the minimum wage and that is where the responsibility lies, at the state and local level, not the federal level.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

Then you are out of touch with the common work force and have been for several decades. You are old enough at this point that you have lost touch with minimum wage workers.

Fyi, in 1970 your 3.65 is equivlent to $22.90 today(47,000$/yr). So not only did you make significantly more than $15/hr but that was solid middle class, working at taco bell. Today that is barely above the poverty line 7.25(15,080$/yr).

CPI Inflation Calculator

Impressive eh?

I'd totally approve wages being what they were in the 1970s, adjusted for inflation.

Do you make minimum wage and if not why not? I employed over 1200 employees and never paid minimum wage because the market wouldn't allow it. Where does personal responsibility lie in your world? IF someone makes minimum wage for years why is that the private business's fault and not the employees?
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

Then you are out of touch with the common work force and have been for several decades. You are old enough at this point that you have lost touch with minimum wage workers.

Fyi, in 1970 your 3.65 is equivlent to $22.90 today(47,000$/yr). So not only did you make significantly more than $15/hr but that was solid middle class, working at taco bell. Today that is barely above the poverty line 7.25(15,080$/yr).

CPI Inflation Calculator

Impressive eh?

I'd totally approve wages being what they were in the 1970s, adjusted for inflation.
Not historic or accurate, The Federal minimum wage did not hit $3.65 until after 1988,
U.S. Department of Labor - Wage & Hour Divisions (WHD) - CHANGES IN BASIC MINIMUM WAGES IN NON-FARM EMPLOYMENT UNDER STATE LAW: SELECTED YEARS 1968 TO 2013
which using your own calculator makes it $7.30 per hour.
CPI Inflation Calculator
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

Not historic or accurate, The Federal minimum wage did not hit $3.65 until after 1988,
U.S. Department of Labor - Wage & Hour Divisions (WHD) - CHANGES IN BASIC MINIMUM WAGES IN NON-FARM EMPLOYMENT UNDER STATE LAW: SELECTED YEARS 1968 TO 2013
which using your own calculator makes it $7.30 per hour.
CPI Inflation Calculator

I take it you missed the point where I said he was solid middle class while working at taco bell? He made 22/hr at taco bell, and yet we have people in this thread decrying them making 15/hr in todays wages. Saying they aren't worth it, and etc.

I didn't say anything about 3.65 being minimum wage in 1970.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

Your cost of living is yours and to pretend that you know what others have for a cost of living is typical liberalism but thanks for admitting that every state has a different cost of living and thus every state can do what your did. No one needs the federal bureaucrats in D.C. to tell a private business in your state what to pay its workers. That is up to the people of the state, not the federal government. There are more than half the states in the nation that have a minimum wage higher than the minimum wage and that is where the responsibility lies, at the state and local level, not the federal level.
That is exactly the federal governments job, when people are being taken advantage of, their job is to fix it. They've done it numerous times with the highway system, military, and federally mandated minimum wage.

Do you make minimum wage and if not why not? I employed over 1200 employees and never paid minimum wage because the market wouldn't allow it. Where does personal responsibility lie in your world? IF someone makes minimum wage for years why is that the private business's fault and not the employees?

I would never want someone to do what I did to escape the black hole that is the Midwest.

Edit* It lies with the employers when they making people work below the standard of living required to not be on government assistance.
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

I take it you missed the point where I said he was solid middle class while working at taco bell? He made 22/hr at taco bell, and yet we have people in this thread decrying them making 15/hr in todays wages. Saying they aren't worth it, and etc.

I didn't say anything about 3.65 being minimum wage in 1970.
No! you cherry picked the earliest year of 1970 to make $3.65 equal to $22.
CPI Inflation Calculator
The 1970's are from 1970 to 1979, Minimum wage was only close to $3.65 in 1979,
While it is not accurate,(Because minimum wage in 1979 was only $2.90),
$3.65 in 1979 would be $11.90, again with your calculator,
CPI Inflation Calculator
On a side note Conservative must have been a kick A$$ taco maker to make $3.65
in the 70's!
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

I'm sorry but no it isn't. They have lied on many occasions and fudged facts when it has fit their agenda. Let me know if you find a better source than something funded by rich conservatives to promote their agenda.

OH look... another liberal class warrior!! What a shocker!! And is loose with the 'truth" ( Ironically what he false accuses other of doing )
I gave you an out. You could have made a debate on the merits of your argument, instead chose the lazy person's out'...Gee you can't trust rich conservatives".

As I said- when Heritage states a fact. It's a fact.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2001/05/art2full.pdf
There is already a short literature on the
amount of time workers spend in minimum wage
jobs. For example, a study by Ralph E. Smith and
Bruce Vavrichek examined the 1-year earnings
mobility of workers that initially worked at mini-
mum wage jobs.
3
They found that 63 percent of
the minimum-wage workers in their sample were
employed at higher-than-minimum wage jobs
1 year later
 
Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

That is exactly the federal governments job, when people are being taken advantage of, their job is to fix it. They've done it numerous times with the highway system, military, and federally mandated minimum wage.



I would never want someone to do what I did to escape the black hole that is the Midwest.

Edit* It lies with the employers when they making people work below the standard of living required to not be on government assistance.

Where is that described in the Constitution as the responsibility of the Federal Govt. to tell a private business what to pay its workers? That isn't what this country was built on and like far too many liberals you think only with your heart and not your brain. That plus you never respond as to why that isn't a state and local responsibility?

The highway system has nothing to do with this issue as it is funded by the excise taxes you pay when you buy gasoline or other petroleum taxes. It is a use tax.

No one held a gun to anyone's head to work for minimum wage. Why won't you answer the question, do you work for minimum wage and if so why?

I was born in Seattle, grew up in the Midwest and know you have no idea what you are talking about when you call it a black hole. One of these days you are going to learn how business works and if you don't like the economy here, Europe is a great place for you
 
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