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Thread: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a rise

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    Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    The oil fields are an excellent example of what happens when the labor market is tight. In my previous business I've experienced this personally over several decades. Hiring cabinet makers and woodworkers was difficult when the economy was booming and to get good help the market forced you to pay for it.

    According Thomas Sowell, only two percent of the population over the age of 24 is working for minimum wage. I read this today and understood that what we have been discussing is really not an important issue. It's mostly a Democrat taking point hike the war on women and really not an important topic. Therefore, my official position for any future conversation is that this topic affects very few people and is not worth discussing when there are so many really important issues in America.
    Gotta watch those statistics - see that bolded line above? If a sixty-year-old woman's getting paid $8/hr at McDonald's in Memphis, hey, she's not working for minimum wage, is she? If you'll check, there's a heck of a lot of major corporations out there who pay just a bit more than minimum wage, just so they can say that they don't pay their workers only minimum wage...

    ...but when one's trying to feed, house, and cloth oneself on $8/hr, it's not easy at all...and especially not if one's trying to feed a family.

    Worst of all, with so many people (like the great majority of Wal-Mart workers) earning just above minimum wage but not enough to live on, what happens? They use food stamps, go into section-8 housing, and whatnot. In other words, the American taxpayer is effectively subsidizing Wal-Mart, McDonald's, and every other mega-corp out there that doesn't pay a living wage.

    There's a saying I like to use: You Pay Anyway. You can either pay higher retail prices at Wal-Mart so that they could afford to pay their workers a living wage...OR you can pay higher taxes because we effectively subsidizing Wal-Mart's wages. But you pay anyway. Really, which is the more sensible choice?
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    Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Gotta watch those statistics - see that bolded line above? If a sixty-year-old woman's getting paid $8/hr at McDonald's in Memphis, hey, she's not working for minimum wage, is she? If you'll check, there's a heck of a lot of major corporations out there who pay just a bit more than minimum wage, just so they can say that they don't pay their workers only minimum wage...

    ...but when one's trying to feed, house, and cloth oneself on $8/hr, it's not easy at all...and especially not if one's trying to feed a family.

    Worst of all, with so many people (like the great majority of Wal-Mart workers) earning just above minimum wage but not enough to live on, what happens? They use food stamps, go into section-8 housing, and whatnot. In other words, the American taxpayer is effectively subsidizing Wal-Mart, McDonald's, and every other mega-corp out there that doesn't pay a living wage.

    There's a saying I like to use: You Pay Anyway. You can either pay higher retail prices at Wal-Mart so that they could afford to pay their workers a living wage...OR you can pay higher taxes because we effectively subsidizing Wal-Mart's wages. But you pay anyway. Really, which is the more sensible choice?
    You really don't have a problem spending someone else's money, do you? Ever own your own business? Wal-Mart doesn't pay even close to minimum wage in most of their stores as their wages for full time employees in many cases exceed $11 per hour

    Pay at Wal-Mart: Low at the Checkout, But High in the Manager’s Office - Corporate Intelligence - WSJ

    Not sure why more liberals don't start their own business to take care of the wage inequities that they believe exist. Wonder if it has anything to do with the responsibilities and costs of being an owner?

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    Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Gotta watch those statistics - see that bolded line above? If a sixty-year-old woman's getting paid $8/hr at McDonald's in Memphis, hey, she's not working for minimum wage, is she? If you'll check, there's a heck of a lot of major corporations out there who pay just a bit more than minimum wage, just so they can say that they don't pay their workers only minimum wage...

    ...but when one's trying to feed, house, and cloth oneself on $8/hr, it's not easy at all...and especially not if one's trying to feed a family.

    Worst of all, with so many people (like the great majority of Wal-Mart workers) earning just above minimum wage but not enough to live on, what happens? They use food stamps, go into section-8 housing, and whatnot. In other words, the American taxpayer is effectively subsidizing Wal-Mart, McDonald's, and every other mega-corp out there that doesn't pay a living wage.

    There's a saying I like to use: You Pay Anyway. You can either pay higher retail prices at Wal-Mart so that they could afford to pay their workers a living wage...OR you can pay higher taxes because we effectively subsidizing Wal-Mart's wages. But you pay anyway. Really, which is the more sensible choice?
    I quoted a well known economist. You quoted yourself. Do you see a problem there? You're just makin' stuff up again.
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    Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

    [QUOTE=Glen Contrarian;1064671986]We agree on that one.



    Like with a lot of rhetoric, that sounds nice...but the devil's in the details. I'd be happy to bring back the CCC...but that would only work for a certain percentage of the unemployed - those who can leave wherever they're at. For single parents (which was not nearly so common when FDR started the CCC), one can't just pick up and leave.

    Then, let's bring the jobs to the people who can't move. The new CCC doesn't have to be projects on public lands. There's plenty to do everywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    What's more, have you ever been to a first-world democracy that doesn't have a minimum wage? There's only one - Germany, but it's the very strong unionization in Germany keeping up entry-level wages there. What you should do, then, is travel to the other democracies that have neither a minimum wage nor strong unionization...and you're going to be in for a shock.
    Then, by all means, let's encourage unionization. With strong unions, we need far less government regulation. The Germans seem to be doing rather well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Why? It's like you said at the beginning - for entry-level workers, the supply is always greater than the demand...and so the imbalance drives the wages down to the bottom. The logic is brutal - if you need money, you have a choice: either become a criminal, or work for near-starvation wages that company X is offering...or starve. And if you don't take that job, they don't care - there's always other people who will come to work for those near-starvation wages.
    That's the beauty of the government buying up surplus workers. It restores the balance so no one has to work for near starvation wages.


    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Not really. Again, the rhetoric sounds nice, but the devil's in the details. What happens if the illegal immigrants here can't get any work at all? Do you really think they're going to go back home? You might wish that, but the real world says something different. The illegal immigrants will simply start little businesses of their own, like lawn services or something else that faces little or no government regulation, or they will turn to crime. But they will NOT go home, not when by doing so, they'd be facing drug violence and kidnapping-for-profit and the never-ending poverty trap.
    If the illegals start up little businesses of their own, then they'll become employers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    The ony real solution isn't one you'll like, either. No matter what you do, as long as America's economy is better than theirs, and as long as America's a safer place to live than theirs, they WILL come - they WILL find ways into America, no matter how many walls and laws and whatever you put up. The ONLY solution, then, is to do what we can to help their OWN countries become safe and prosperous...so that the people would not want to come here.

    And we've seen this to a small extent over the past few years. When America was in the throes of the Great Recession, we had net zero illegal immigration - they didn't want to come to America because our economy was melting down. So that's the solution - if their economy is as nearly as good as our own, then they won't come to America. That's the only real solution - all other measures are band-aids and nothing more.
    As long as the balance is made by Mexico and Central America joining the first world, and not by the US becoming another Mexico, then that's a good thing. The devil, as you said, is in the details. We could (should) end the war on drugs, which would decrease the violence south of the border, but how do we help Mexico become prosperous with opportunities for its citizens?
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    Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Good news for the unemployed, there will be a bunch of job openings at McDonald's soon. Kwanza Brooks and Terrence Wise are soon to be on unemployment as well as food stamps. And if you've been making $8 an hour for the last 11 years and working at a fast food joint you're dumb as a sack of hammers and lucky to be getting $8 an hour.
    Ive just spilt my coffee all down my shirt! Common sense in a nutshell. sometimes a whole topic can be summed up in a small paragraph and you just did it. Congratulations on an excellent comment, that creased me up.

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    Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post

    Then, let's bring the jobs to the people who can't move. The new CCC doesn't have to be projects on public lands. There's plenty to do everywhere.
    I'd agree with that much, at least.

    Then, by all means, let's encourage unionization. With strong unions, we need far less government regulation. The Germans seem to be doing rather well.
    If all workers could be represented by unions (and not toothless unions like they have in China, but powerful like those in Germany), I could agree with most of that...but when it comes to 'far less government regulation', we can't give up the safety and environmental regulations (and I believe that Germany's are even stricter than our own).

    That's the beauty of the government buying up surplus workers. It restores the balance so no one has to work for near starvation wages.
    Very true - which is why WWII got us out of the Depression. Millions went to work directly for the government, and millions more went to work for factories and shipyards for government-funded production.

    If the illegals start up little businesses of their own, then they'll become employers.
    You said that no one could hire an illegal...but you'd be okay with illegals being the employers?

    As long as the balance is made by Mexico and Central America joining the first world, and not by the US becoming another Mexico, then that's a good thing. The devil, as you said, is in the details. We could (should) end the war on drugs, which would decrease the violence south of the border, but how do we help Mexico become prosperous with opportunities for its citizens?
    I strongly agree that we need to end the war on drugs. Much more stringent gun control on our part would also help Mexico and Central America, since many - perhaps most - of their weapons come from us. But how to bring them to first-world status? It's going to take a strong (and not quite as corrupt) government and a more effective means of tax collection...for as far as I can tell, no democracy has ever reached first-world status without having big government, high effective taxes, and strong regulation.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    I quoted a well known economist. You quoted yourself. Do you see a problem there? You're just makin' stuff up again.
    And I very clearly pointed out how that particular statistic is OBVIOUSLY cherry-picked - it doesn't even address those who make just a few pennies more than the minimum wage. You've GOT to learn to see through those stats, guy.

    And when I said, "you pay anyway", yes you do. It comes from an old Valvoline (or was it Quaker State) oil commercial back in the 1970's - there's a mechanic on the TV saying, "Pay me now, or pay me later." It meant, "you can pay me now (for the oil change) or you can pay me later (when I have to rebuild your engine)".

    What I'm telling you is the same thing - you can either pay more at Wal-mart for higher wages for their workers...OR you can pay more taxes because workers at Wal-Mart make so little that they have to have food stamps. But you pay anyway.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I'd agree with that much, at least.



    If all workers could be represented by unions (and not toothless unions like they have in China, but powerful like those in Germany), I could agree with most of that...but when it comes to 'far less government regulation', we can't give up the safety and environmental regulations (and I believe that Germany's are even stricter than our own).



    Very true - which is why WWII got us out of the Depression. Millions went to work directly for the government, and millions more went to work for factories and shipyards for government-funded production.



    You said that no one could hire an illegal...but you'd be okay with illegals being the employers?



    I strongly agree that we need to end the war on drugs. Much more stringent gun control on our part would also help Mexico and Central America, since many - perhaps most - of their weapons come from us. But how to bring them to first-world status? It's going to take a strong (and not quite as corrupt) government and a more effective means of tax collection...for as far as I can tell, no democracy has ever reached first-world status without having big government, high effective taxes, and strong regulation.
    I agree with almost all of that.
    As for the illegals becoming employers, I'd rather they not be here illegally at all, but, as you said, that's going to be very difficult to accomplish.

    and I'm going to let the conservatives (self described) on this board answer that last one.
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    Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I agree with almost all of that.
    As for the illegals becoming employers, I'd rather they not be here illegally at all, but, as you said, that's going to be very difficult to accomplish.

    and I'm going to let the conservatives (self described) on this board answer that last one.
    Really is hard to deal with very nave, gullible, poorly informed individuals who judge everyone else by their own standards and ignore the reality of human nature, human incentive, and human evil.

    Yes, let's legalize drugs so that people have another reason not to accept personal responsibility and something else to blame their own failures on.

    Let's enact strict gun control so that the criminals are the only ones with guns. We certainly know criminals will comply with the law and turn in their guns.

    Let's ignore the evil in the world and talk them to death instead for after all they are simply misunderstood and we know liberals have the answers.

    Let's force private business to pay wages to meet the demands of their workers and not the demands of their own financial requirements. Why shouldn't the govt. tell a private business what to pay their workers since it is the govt. that gets paid first, the employees, second, and the business owner with the investment last.

    What is it about liberalism that creates people like this who are experts and legends in their own mind?

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    Re: McDonald's boss says he's "proud" of wages as thousands of workers call for a ris

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Really is hard to deal with very nave, gullible, poorly informed individuals who judge everyone else by their own standards and ignore the reality of human nature, human incentive, and human evil.

    Yes, let's legalize drugs so that people have another reason not to accept personal responsibility and something else to blame their own failures on.

    Let's enact strict gun control so that the criminals are the only ones with guns. We certainly know criminals will comply with the law and turn in their guns.

    Let's ignore the evil in the world and talk them to death instead for after all they are simply misunderstood and we know liberals have the answers.

    Let's force private business to pay wages to meet the demands of their workers and not the demands of their own financial requirements. Why shouldn't the govt. tell a private business what to pay their workers since it is the govt. that gets paid first, the employees, second, and the business owner with the investment last.

    What is it about liberalism that creates people like this who are experts and legends in their own mind?
    and to think this is the part I thought would get a reaction from the SDCs:

    It's going to take a strong (and not quite as corrupt) government and a more effective means of tax collection...for as far as I can tell, no democracy has ever reached first-world status without having big government, high effective taxes, and strong regulation.
    But no, it's easier to support gun rights and the war on drugs (which seems to me to be opposite sides of the philosophical divide) than it is to come up with an example to counter the bolded part of the statement.
    Its an unbelievably complex subject. Nobody knew health care could be so complicated. Donald Trump



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