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Thread: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    I think China knows better to push the US too far. We are most of their economy and many American corporations are providing jobs for their people. They will not bite the hand that feeds them.

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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    The islands have always been in those countries territorial waters, China did not care about most of them until oil was found there. The US is in the area by the request of those nations as they feel threatened by Chinese expansion and they have every right to be.
    The islands are NOT in their territorial waters-territorial waters extend 12 miles from their land.

    China arbitrarily DREW a line, and told everyone else it was theirs.

    And now they are building up a military presence and telling others to pack up and bounce.

    They don't even have a compelling case to the land.


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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    The islands are NOT in their territorial waters-territorial waters extend 12 miles from their land.

    China arbitrarily DREW a line, and told everyone else it was theirs.

    And now they are building up a military presence and telling others to pack up and bounce.

    They don't even have a compelling case to the land.

    That is what I am saying. By territorial waters I mean they have always been parts of their nations martime borders.

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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Nursmate View Post
    I think China knows better to push the US too far. We are most of their economy and many American corporations are providing jobs for their people. They will not bite the hand that feeds them.
    What do you think would happen if they pushed the US? Obama has already demonstrated that his red lines mean nothing. Putin was much more bold in his actions and what happened there?

    If I was a territory nation, this would be an excellent time to dig in-and thats what China is doing. Long term, it also sets a precedent that having the US as an ally isn't particularly helpful.

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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    It does go back long before Obama-but I think China is emboldened by a POTUS who wont respond.

    Its not exactly a secret that he's a push over.
    I understand your position, just trying to illustrate that military tension over these islands is nothing new.

    I doubt that us having a weaker President or a stronger President has all that much impact on China's decisions over the years for a continual increase in military readiness and showing of might over this area of the South China Sea. China has been running patrol boats in and out of these waters for decades now. Granted, things got much worse once Japan held a Chinese fishing boat Captain for several weeks back in 2010. The activity between the Chinese and Taiwanese governments goes way back as well. Once China fighters entered Japan's airspace in 2012 that pretty much signaled the end of a peaceful resolution between all these nations.

    My point is, it would be foolish to blame the escalation on Obama even if there was additional increases in military activity during his time.

    The other key issue is what is it you expect any President to do about this dispute? Strong rhetoric has a tendency to not really impact China decision making, nor has it really quelled their military and/or economic ambitions for this region. I think you overestimate the hand we have in our relations with China anyway. They have plenty of cards in their hand given that they buy our debt to the point that we rely on it, *and* they build a significant amount of our products to the point of enjoying a trade surplus with us.
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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    Well their interests are superior to China's as the islands are closer to the respective nations claiming them and those islands have always been considered parts of those nations. Have you ever actually looked at a map of the South China Sea? It would be like Cuba claiming the entirety of the Gulf of Mexico and Key West. China only started to claim the islands once oil was found around them.
    No, they are not superior. And this is not nearly as cut and dry as you depict. Look, the first country to ever file a legal claim to the islands was the British empire, and surely the Spratly's and Paracel's were closer to China then Britain. The Chinese formally complained when the Germans came to survey them in 1883.

    The boundary convention between the Chinese and the Vietnamese that was signed by France and China at the conclusion of the Sino-French war recognized China as the rightful owners of the islands. Indeed China placed flags and markers on the islands in 1902 and a 1755 Archeological survey discovered Chinese pottery and coins on the islands, that may have been the result of intentional presence or perhaps from Chinese junks shipwrecked there.

    But one thing is certain, China's claims are no less legitimate than the others that you name, and as such, there's very little logic in the US risking a war with that power over such questionable conditions.
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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Nursmate View Post
    I think China knows better to push the US too far. We are most of their economy and many American corporations are providing jobs for their people. They will not bite the hand that feeds them.
    That goes both ways you know.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    I understand your position, just trying to illustrate that military tension over these islands is nothing new.

    I doubt that us having a weaker President or a stronger President has all that much impact on China's decisions over the years for a continual increase in military readiness and showing of might over this area of the South China Sea. China has been running patrol boats in and out of these waters for decades now. Granted, things got much worse once Japan held a Chinese fishing boat Captain for several weeks back in 2010. The activity between the Chinese and Taiwanese governments goes way back as well. Once China fighters entered Japan's airspace in 2012 that pretty much signaled the end of a peaceful resolution between all these nations.

    My point is, it would be foolish to blame the escalation on Obama even if there was additional increases in military activity during his time.

    The other key issue is what is it you expect any President to do about this dispute? Strong rhetoric has a tendency to not really impact China decision making, nor has it really quelled their military and/or economic ambitions for this region. I think you overestimate the hand we have in our relations with China anyway. They have plenty of cards in their hand given that they buy our debt to the point that we rely on it, *and* they build a significant amount of our products to the point of enjoying a trade surplus with us.
    A strong POTUS stands with our allies and commits to stop the aggressive actions of other nations. Historically China has not been an invasive nation, this is a change. They were watching for our response, just as they were watching how we responded to Russia.

    As for our debt held by the Chinese, its a two way street-they need us as well. Its a matter of not making the orange worth the squeeze.

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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    China will never go too far..regardless of who is POTUS. They need us...and we have a large debt with them as well. They invested those funds in America because they knew it was a good investment. Our corporations are benefiting greatly there too. Our economies are entwined and China is enjoying the fruits of Capitalism right now and will not upset the apple cart. We will turn a blind eye when or if China takes over those small countries as long as they are not looking to do it here. The GOP would never think of getting aggressive with China...their lobbyist or buddies are getting wealthy by our friendship with China. If the US were to take on N. Korea right now...I would bet that China sides with the US simply because we are a wealthier country and they would like to be a wealthy country too.

    As far as Putin...he is a Europe problem. We survived the cold war and nothing happened under the Soviet Union. He is a maniac...but he doesn't want his country torn up either. There are 28 countries in the EU who have stellar military's. They can stand up to Russia without US intervention.

    As far as the ME...I think they will eventually destroy themselves and no one will miss them if it happens. I agree with the POTUS on limited involvement over there..it is just not worth our resources. We gave them a opportunity when we liberated Iraq and they blew it. We pulled out too early in Iraq but everyone wanted those soldiers home..including their families. Ten years was enough. There is nothing left for us to do there.

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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    No, they are not superior. And this is not nearly as cut and dry as you depict. Look, the first country to ever file a legal claim to the islands was the British empire, and surely the Spratly's and Paracel's were closer to China then Britain. The Chinese formally complained when the Germans came to survey them in 1883.

    The boundary convention between the Chinese and the Vietnamese that was signed by France and China at the conclusion of the Sino-French war recognized China as the rightful owners of the islands. Indeed China placed flags and markers on the islands in 1902 and a 1755 Archeological survey discovered Chinese pottery and coins on the islands, that may have been the result of intentional presence or perhaps from Chinese junks shipwrecked there.

    But one thing is certain, China's claims are no less legitimate than the others that you name, and as such, there's very little logic in the US risking a war with that power over such questionable conditions.
    The lines China drew are arbitrary and transparently aimed at natural resources. Its much closer to other nations, and the claims they hold are also valid.

    The difference is that only China plopped down and is now building up a significant and more permanent military presence.

    Unless you can demonstrate why China has a MORE valid claim to the land-what they are doing is a provocation.

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