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Thread: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

  1. #171
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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    It hasn't reversed what Russia's done...but it's certainly stopped it from getting worse.
    I will grant you that beyond the initial ill advised interference by the US in Kiev, Obama has exercised restraint as far as arming Ukraine or any other types of provocations towards Russia.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    So china isn't building military bases in the Pacific?

    Tell me, what do you think it is doing?
    In the pacific, or in the South China Sea. The US is building a huge base in Guam right now, why do you have a problem with China building military installations?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    No I do not at this point recognize their claim.
    Now my points from earlier.
    So how about we start with certain areas to be clarified and addressed.
    China and the other countries are signatories to the UN Law of the Sea Convention.
    As such what can be claimed as territorial waters is laid out clearly.
    My opinion, China is not adhering to the Treaty, correct?
    China initially agreed to multiparty talks to address the issue, now has reverted to one on one negotiation’s where significant pressure can be applied by China. Correct?

    Basically China is attempting to shut out the US from an area ( Asia for the US) of immense strategic value to each.
    Well it seems clear to me that you have an anti China bias and your accusation that they are trying to shut out the US is unfounded. You're treating this as though it's cut and dry and China is the aggressor and you seem to be unaware of several facts. There are six nations that have overlapping claims to the spratly islands, that's right, CLAIMS!!!!! Nobody can produce a title, yet all of them, with the exception of Brunei, have built runways, barracks, communication centers, hello pads or some other form of military infrastructures on them, some of them have even had troops stationed on some of them for extended periods. That's right, without any clear title, these activities have taken place. Your treating this as a cut and dry situation and painting China as the bad guy. There's others here spouting all this tough talk, and stupidly accusing Obama of being weak because, who knows, he hasn't attacked China over it or whatever they think he should be doing.

    Here's Malaysia's situation........

    Malaysia has claimed sovereignty over twelve islands in the Spratly group, but those claims appear ill-founded. Serious doubt remains about the legal propriety of Malaysia’s assertions, which arises from Malaysia’s basing its claims to certain islands on ocean law principles associated with prolongation of a continental shelf seaward, rather than the accepted legal means of validating claim to title over territory through permanent occupation.

    http://www.stimson.org/images/upload...mapspratly.pdf

    And there's this...........

    Eight states claim title to these South China Sea islands. Singapore and Malaysia dispute claims over Pisang Island and Pulau Batu Puteh, strategically situated in the congested waters of Malacca and Singapore Straits.7 China, Taiwan, and Vietnam contest each other’s claims to sovereignty over the Paracel Islands, a group of fifteen islets and several reefs and shoals scattered over a 200-kilometer area in the middle of the Gulf of Tonkin.8 Taiwan also contests China's claims to Pratas Island and the Macclesfield Bank. As for the Spratlys, six states assert claims: China, Taiwan and Vietnam claim the entire archipelago, while the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei claim sovereignty over portions of the Spratlys. Except for Brunei, all the others have established a military presence in the Spratlys.

    http://www.stimson.org/images/upload...mapspratly.pdf

    I hope you can see what a complicated mess this is, and that it's not the "China is the bad guy" abusing everyone else as so many insist on presenting it.
    Last edited by Montecresto; 05-23-15 at 12:17 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Mapping the Claims
    Six countries lay overlapping claims to the East and South China Seas, an area that is rich in hydrocarbons and natural gas and through which trillions of dollars of global trade flow. As it seeks to expand its maritime presence, China has been met by growing assertiveness from regional claimants like Japan, Vietnam, and the Philippines. The increasingly frequent standoffs span from the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands, on China’s eastern flank, to the long stretch of archipelagos in the South China Sea that comprise hundreds of islets. The U.S. pivot to Asia, involving renewed diplomatic activity and military redeployment, could signal Washington’s heightened role in the disputes, which, if not managed wisely, could turn part of Asia’s maritime regions from thriving trade channels into arenas of conflict.

    China's Maritime Disputes

    To the bolded, like the hot heads here that are calling Obama weak, suggesting he should be flexing some muscle!
    Last edited by Montecresto; 05-23-15 at 12:23 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Actually, the shift in forces to Asia has been happening for the last 10 plus years now.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Well it seems clear to me that you have an anti China bias and your accusation that they are trying to shut out the US is unfounded. You're treating this as though it's cut and dry and China is the aggressor and you seem to be unaware of several facts. There are six nations that have overlapping claims to the spratly islands, that's right, CLAIMS!!!!! Nobody can produce a title, yet all of them, with the exception of Brunei, have built runways, barracks, communication centers, hello pads or some other form of military infrastructures on them, some of them have even had troops stationed on some of them for extended periods. That's right, without any clear title, these activities have taken place. Your treating this as a cut and dry situation and painting China as the bad guy. There's others here spouting all this tough talk, and stupidly accusing Obama of being weak because, who knows, he hasn't attacked China over it or whatever they think he should be doing.

    Here's Malaysia's situation........

    Malaysia has claimed sovereignty over twelve islands in the Spratly group, but those claims appear ill-founded. Serious doubt remains about the legal propriety of Malaysia’s assertions, which arises from Malaysia’s basing its claims to certain islands on ocean law principles associated with prolongation of a continental shelf seaward, rather than the accepted legal means of validating claim to title over territory through permanent occupation.

    http://www.stimson.org/images/upload...mapspratly.pdf

    And there's this...........

    Eight states claim title to these South China Sea islands. Singapore and Malaysia dispute claims over Pisang Island and Pulau Batu Puteh, strategically situated in the congested waters of Malacca and Singapore Straits.7 China, Taiwan, and Vietnam contest each other’s claims to sovereignty over the Paracel Islands, a group of fifteen islets and several reefs and shoals scattered over a 200-kilometer area in the middle of the Gulf of Tonkin.8 Taiwan also contests China's claims to Pratas Island and the Macclesfield Bank. As for the Spratlys, six states assert claims: China, Taiwan and Vietnam claim the entire archipelago, while the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei claim sovereignty over portions of the Spratlys. Except for Brunei, all the others have established a military presence in the Spratlys.

    http://www.stimson.org/images/upload...mapspratly.pdf

    I hope you can see what a complicated mess this is, and that it's not the "China is the bad guy" abusing everyone else as so many insist on presenting it.
    Never said it was not complicated. Never stated Obama should go to war or attack. The US will fly and sail thru international waters.
    China originally agreed to multiparty negotiations. Then backed off and insisted on one on one.
    Also China agreed to code of conduct. Then wanted that changed as well. Can they be trusted?
    Places the smaller countries at a distinct disadvantage, and is the old divide and conquer.
    All agreed not to expand areas or perform more reclamation. Both China and I believe Malaysia broke this agreement.
    No anti bias here on China. The present leadership has become more confrontational than his predecessors.
    China has limited time to make and assert control to this area.
    Other countries are rising economically faster than China and with a younger population.
    An old saying, Chian will be Grey before they are rich.
    Oook to Indonesia, India as growth jumps to higher levels.
    If my post offends you, I deeply Apple-O-Jize.

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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I already did-make the juice not worth the squeeze.
    Again, details - not general statements, but details. Exactly what would you DO?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    In the pacific, or in the South China Sea. The US is building a huge base in Guam right now, why do you have a problem with China building military installations?
    Guam is US territory. The SCS is NOT china's.

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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Guam is US territory. The SCS is NOT china's.
    Well sure, right after we lifted it from Spain through conquest. Hypocritical much, best to leave China alone!

    With strong desire to prove itself as the equal to Britain and France, the US closed out the 19th Century by engaging in a war with Spain that took from her the last of her colonies.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Well sure, right after we lifted it from Spain through conquest. Hypocritical much, best to leave China alone!

    With strong desire to prove itself as the equal to Britain and France, the US closed out the 19th Century by engaging in a war with Spain that took from her the last of her colonies.
    These Islands ARENT Chinas, they didn't win them by right of conquest, or anything else-they have no more of a legal basis for these islands than anyone else. The US legally controls Guam, not even comparable.

    And Spains last colony was not guam, guy.

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