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Thread: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by akrunner88 View Post
    And in return they will price themselves out of business. With less workers means less money flowing through the economy. It all comes full circle. If your business model relies on paying your employees inadequate wages in relation to cost of living, your business model sucks.
    no they won't because there are always people that are above that will pay.
    and with the reduced cost in overhead IE you don't have to pay automation checkouts and ordering system overtime and benefits.

    they will actually increase their business.

    no the business model doesn't suck. there is a price point that all businesses use and and what people are willing to pay.
    if I sell 10 dollar burgers and people eat them up then I am doing well. where I was paying that cook 10 bucks an hour I know half to pay 15
    he can only produce so many burgers an hour and it has to be more than it costs to pay him.

    I am not eating the cost out of my profit no way. so he either makes more burgers or I raise my prices.
    however the easier way to keep prices the same is to get rid of non-essential people.

    how? I replace them with self order machines. I don't take cash. people just swipe their card or phone and it sends the order back to the kitchen.

    if I save enough on that end I can bump someone else's pay but it will be hard to justify the cost.

    so I won't price myself out of business. I fire people so I can keep costs the same.
    those people can't find jobs because they don't have the skills to justify 15 dollar an hour pay.

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Good news for the fight against income inequality.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/20/us...hour.html?_r=0

    The nation’s second-largest city voted on Tuesday to increase its minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020 from the current $9 an hour, in what is perhaps the most significant victory so far in the national push to raise the minimum wage. The increase — which the Los Angeles City Council passed in a 14-1 vote — comes as workers across the country are rallying for higher wages, and several large companies, including Facebook and Walmart, have moved to raise their lowest wages. Several other cities, including San Francisco, Seattle and Oakland, Calif., have already approved increases, and dozens more are considering doing the same. In 2014, a number of Republican-leaning states like Alaska and South Dakota also raised their state-level minimum wage by referendum. The impact is likely to be particularly strong in Los Angeles, where, according to some estimates, more than 40 percent of the city’s work force earns less than $15 an hour.
    While I do like this, it doesn't mean anything if they don't do something to contain their illegal workers and sweatshops that undermine their workforce and their wages.
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    While I do like this, it doesn't mean anything if they don't do something to contain their illegal workers and sweatshops that undermine their workforce and their wages.
    i have never understood the point about wanting to raise the minimum wage, but yet undercut the people on that lower end of the wage scale, by allowing illegals to enter the u.s. and work.

    what it tells me is we have people who want the lower class vote and the hispanic vote....

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i have never understood the point about wanting to raise the minimum wage, but yet undercut the people on that lower end of the wage scale, by allowing illegals to enter the u.s. and work.
    Just let them come here to work legally. Just apply the minimum wage to them as well and tax them at a higher rate than citizens and have them paying into the social safety net programs. If you are an employer you will then be far more likely to hire the American citizen because you are assured they most likely are to have at least some formal education and the immigrant work force will be there to pick up any areas of work that citizens aren't at. All without undermining wages and creating a sub-society within our own country.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    what it tells me is we have people who want the lower class vote and the hispanic vote....
    I think you are putting on the blame the gubamint tin foil hat a bit too much on this. It's a matter of a society being addicted to having an underclass that they can exploit for their own gain.
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Just let them come here to work legally. Just apply the minimum wage to them as well and tax them at a higher rate than citizens and have them paying into the social safety net programs. If you are an employer you will then be far more likely to hire the American citizen because you are assured they most likely are to have at least some formal education and the immigrant work force will be there to pick up any areas of work that citizens aren't at. All without undermining wages and creating a sub-society within our own country.
    the u.s. would be stupid to have an open door policy on immigration, and we cannot let everyone come here who wants to work , because we would face millions of people.....and since we are not, legals are going to undercut legal workers wages.

    on the surface it looks as if the people running LA are stupid, but they are not....they are praying on the low intelligence of the low scale worker, and that of the hispanic community to keep electing them.

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the u.s. would be stupid to have an open door policy on immigration, and we cannot let everyone come here who wants to work , because we would face millions of people.....and since we are not, legals are going to undercut legal workers wages.

    on the surface it looks as if the people running LA are stupid, but they are not....they are praying on the low intelligence of the low scale worker, and that of the hispanic community to keep electing them.
    I think you are under the delusion that everyone wants to be here. They don't. They want to feed their families. I have no grudge on them for that. If they are subjected to our wage laws, employers will hire Americans for reasons I already stated. Then as the jobs aren't there for the immigrants because they can't compete as well with American workers, the immigration to here will dry up.
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by ARTHUR 1976 View Post
    I lived in Seattle for 3 years, and didn't make that much, but I always paid my rent on time, put food on the table, and bought extras when needed, so you don't know dick about who can afford what, you make your bills, you wanna drive a 20 thousand dollar car, wear suits all the time, and shop , shop , shop, and live over your means of course you will have problems anywhere, you have to know how to budget..

    Of course rent will be higher for a condo in New York city, then living in some cesspool toxic trailer park in Redneck Mississippi, because there ain't **** there, and no way to make real money, you get what you pay for in life, you turds on the right should know that..

    Newsflash that's why they call it a living wage, you go where the money is, not some piece of **** poverty ridden red state where the median income is too low for even a rat to live on, Mississipp, Arkansas, Alabama, Louisiana, all **** states where poverty is rampant..
    Never mind. It appears you aren't interested in debate at all - only hurling invective. I don't think I'm going to regret putting you where you are going.


    If anyone else doubts that minimum wage earners in large cities with high cost of living often live outside of city limits where the living is cheaper, feel free to go visit Los Angeles, San Fransisco, et. al.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    I can't seem to post in the Loft, however, I will note that after going through the thread, it DOES seem promising. I know you balk at taxing capital gains, but doing so will eliminate one avenue for tax dodgers. I don't truly care TO tax capital gains, however, failure to do so will just result in avoidance by those that can afford to utilize it. I call that the Warren Buffet dodge.
    Then you've misnamed it. The Warren Buffet dodge isn't to take his income in capital gains, it's to put his wealth in giant trusts to protect it from the very taxes that he then advocates raising, while selling financial products whose value goes up if nominal rates do.

    Taxing capital gains is dumb, but, again, compromises can be made.

    I will trust that the numbers work out, in terms of income vs spending trajectories. And it solves the issue of making more and bringing home less at certain pay scales, which I am currently dealing with. I get paid more than I did a year ago, and bring home less. Which has prompted me to simply put more into my 401K, lol.
    Yup. The cliffs are amazingly destructive. It beggars belief how anyone could deliberately design a system that way.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I think you are under the delusion that everyone wants to be here. They don't. They want to feed their families. I have no grudge on them for that. If they are subjected to our wage laws, employers will hire Americans for reasons I already stated. Then as the jobs aren't there for the immigrants because they can't compete as well with American workers, the immigration to here will dry up.
    sorry thats not right........as long as people can hire people under the table, wages will be undercut.

    people are not wanting to pay $9 now and hire illegals, do you think they are going to want to pay $15.....

    illegal immigration is not going to dry up, as long as the conditions in the counties of the world remain crappy.

    i live in Arizona....and it is common for people to die everyday here, risking their life's to come here to get away from the poverty they live in south of our border

    how does going from $9 to $15 solve the problems.....it doesn't
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-19-15 at 11:39 PM.

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Good news for the fight against income inequality.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/20/us...hour.html?_r=0

    The nation’s second-largest city voted on Tuesday to increase its minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020 from the current $9 an hour, in what is perhaps the most significant victory so far in the national push to raise the minimum wage. The increase — which the Los Angeles City Council passed in a 14-1 vote — comes as workers across the country are rallying for higher wages, and several large companies, including Facebook and Walmart, have moved to raise their lowest wages. Several other cities, including San Francisco, Seattle and Oakland, Calif., have already approved increases, and dozens more are considering doing the same. In 2014, a number of Republican-leaning states like Alaska and South Dakota also raised their state-level minimum wage by referendum. The impact is likely to be particularly strong in Los Angeles, where, according to some estimates, more than 40 percent of the city’s work force earns less than $15 an hour.
    The left populist adoration of 1930s discredited bromides, such "commanding wages or prices", has put wishful thinking ahead of theory and experience; it was unsuccessful during the Nixon administration as it has been in every shoeless socialist third world country. And to the degree that a minimum wage is actually setting a labor price above the market wage (whatever that might be in LA in 2020), rest assured the laws of supply and demand, marginal costs/revenue, and product substitution do not disappear - it will have a panoply of effects, most of them being detrimental to the well being of employers, job seekers, and the most needy employees.

    The love of minimum wage stems mainly from the hypocrisy of who desire to give away money to a favored class, but only because it is someone elses' expense. Such is especially attractive to the left, because it harms their favorite class enemy (the proprietor of a small business)...and nothing delights the "humane left" like "punishing those greedy business owners".

    But for those moored to reality (and economics 101), rather than class-wage envy, its an extraordinarily bad idea. For example:

    - It increases the cost of labor, which increases the input cost of production. Consequently, it lowers (rather than raises) the demand for labor in a labor market.
    - It increases wage pressure for raises to other employees, who currently work at jobs in the business THAT are worth 15 dollars an hour and who expect to be paid more than the least skilled and experienced.
    - It decreases supply of the product or service produced to the public, while also increasing the product/service prices.
    - It reduces profit and profit margins, reducing investment (and incentive) to job expansion.
    - It redistributes jobs from the less skilled or educated poor, to the better skilled/educated classes. IF business have to pay above market wages, they will be inclined to higher fewer young, unskilled, dropouts, and to replace them with the higher level educated workers.
    - While it harms opportunity for entry level jobs for the young, it "freezes" job advancement by making jobs like dishwashing a "career" for older adults.

    Empirical studies have confirmed the unemployment and other effects; including reduced training, price inflation, reduced job opportunity, while having no measurable effect on the poverty rate.

    But hey, who can resist ordering the person who owns a little business pay for your effusive generosity?
    Last edited by maxparrish; 05-19-15 at 11:51 PM.

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