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Thread: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

  1. #21
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Why have you chosen Argentina as your example? Are they the ONLY economy you could google that has minimum wage laws?
    You're kidding right ?

    Their Government has ..AGAIN.....been doing the very thing that your'e advocating as a solution.

    Arbitrary mandated wage increases not based on anything other than progressive talking points. Their wage increases are irrespective of their markets and of demand or ANYTHING that would make sense in a modern economy.

    Its driven their inflation rates through the roof.

    Central planning has failed and will continue to fail no matter who tries it or what decade it is.
    " If no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else ? "
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    We're not saying it will. What we are looking for is to have something close to a minimum wage, where a single parent can raise a child on one income and have enough time left over to actually spend some time with that child instead of only seeing the child in between rushing from one job to another.

    If you want children to be raised well, then the parents must be able to have time to spend with them. And no, don't go down the route of "Well they shouldn't-a had the kid to begin with"...because it happens no matter what conservatives think should happen otherwise.
    Eh....


    One income is never going to be enough to properly raise a child, if that income is minimum wage. That's just an impossible dream. It never was, and never will be. Not here, not in Canada, not anywhere, really. Daycare is around 230$ PER WEEK, in CT. FYI.
    "Half full or half empty doesn't matter. What matters is, you've only got half a glass...so what are you going to do about it?" - Me
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    You're kidding right ?

    Their Government has ..AGAIN.....been doing the very thing that your'e advocating as a solution.

    Arbitrary mandated wage increases not based on anything other than progressive talking points. Their wage increases are irrespective of their markets and of demand or ANYTHING that would make sense in a modern economy.

    Its driven their inflation rates through the roof.

    Central planning has failed and will continue to fail no matter who tries it or what decade it is.
    And they are the ONLY government that has done this? No other governments in the known world have increasing minimum wage in the last, say, 10 years or so? No other government in the known world HAS minimum wage laws in place?


    Again, WHY have you chosen Argentina, amongst the plethora of other equally, or heck, MORE APPLICABLE candidates out there?
    "Half full or half empty doesn't matter. What matters is, you've only got half a glass...so what are you going to do about it?" - Me
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    All related to immigration.



    You should probably bow out now. You are a pony with one trick, and it's used.
    I should bow out ?

    Because I've contradicted your OPINION with valid and relevent data ?

    you're pretending immigration is the sole reason for California's disastrous economy.

    Did immigration drive out millions of Californias citizens and hundreds of its Businesses to Texas, that also has a large illegal alien population ?

    Maybe you should bow out if all you can offer is ridiculous opinions
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    I should bow out ?

    Because I've contradicted your OPINION with valid and relevent data ?

    you're pretending immigration is the sole reason for California's disastrous economy.

    Did immigration drive out millions of Californias citizens and hundreds of its Businesses to Texas, that also has a large illegal alien population ?

    Maybe you should bow out if all you can offer is ridiculous opinions
    We're talking about wellfare, Fenton. Remember what we're discussing.
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    You mean California isn't currently in the throws of economic Armageddon ???

    Lol !! You could have fooled me.

    They have the Nation's highest poverty rates and count 1/3 of the Nation's Welfare recipients as residents.
    It's "throes", not "throws".

    And perhaps you should find out how Texas compares to California when it comes to level of educational attainment, percentage of population covered by health insurance, homicide rate, and life expectancy. I distinctly remember a 2011 study showing that 41% of ALL teachers in Texas had second jobs...which shows just how much of a priority Texas places on education.

    Then again, ol' "we-love-small-guv'mint" Texas is the same one whose governor just signed a bill into law that prevents local city governments from banning fracking within city limits.... I guess y'all love "small guv'mint"...but only when it suits your purposes.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    And they are the ONLY government that has done this? No other governments in the known world have increasing minimum wage in the last, say, 10 years or so? No other government in the known world HAS minimum wage laws in place?


    Again, WHY have you chosen Argentina, amongst the plethora of other equally, or heck, MORE APPLICABLE candidates out there?
    Ok, there's Venezuela who've also implemented many of the same destructive left wing policies that people like YOU claim will solve our economyic issues.

    They'reve made outsourcing illegal and have passed laws that protect the worker to the point where its nearly impossible to fire a unproductive employee.

    Now, they currently have the lowest productivity rates on the Continent and foreign investment has all but dried up completely.

    And why do you discount Argentina as a example of failed progressive policies ?

    Because its to good of a example ?
    Last edited by Fenton; 05-19-15 at 07:50 PM.
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Eh....


    One income is never going to be enough to properly raise a child, if that income is minimum wage. That's just an impossible dream. It never was, and never will be. Not here, not in Canada, not anywhere, really. Daycare is around 230$ PER WEEK, in CT. FYI.
    One income is never enough...but it's a matter of degree, isn't it? Just because we can't make it "enough", what's wrong with making it better than "nowhere close to enough"?
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    It's "throes", not "throws".

    And perhaps you should find out how Texas compares to California when it comes to level of educational attainment, percentage of population covered by health insurance, homicide rate, and life expectancy. I distinctly remember a 2011 study showing that 41% of ALL teachers in Texas had second jobs...which shows just how much of a priority Texas places on education.

    Then again, ol' "we-love-small-guv'mint" Texas is the same one whose governor just signed a bill into law that prevents local city governments from banning fracking within city limits.... I guess y'all love "small guv'mint"...but only when it suits your purposes.

    You be the spelling police, and offer up totally irelevent talking points, and Ill continue to expose the fallacies of left wing solutions, okay ?
    " If no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else ? "
    Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    CP, I respect the **** out of you, I regard you as a VERY intelligent person, and a fantastic poster here at DP. If you ran for president, I'd vote for you hands down. Truth.
    thanks bro. I look forward to calling you on that.

    BUT.

    You HAVE to concede that with the way modern technology is going, the mechinization of our labor...that THIS is the direction we NEED to be moving in, no matter how distasteful you or I find it to be, in order to retain some form of capitalism. When robots are doing 90% or more of the work, SOME form of wealth redistribution is going to be needed in order to retain some semblance of capitalism. It just is, IMO.
    1. I reject the idea that robots are going to replace all workers. That claim has been being made for centuries now, with as-of-yet no results. The combined ingenuity of humanity is incredible at putting un or under-utilized resources (such as labor) to making a profit. Machines change the nature of our workforce, and they change demand for particular kinds of labor. They aren't going to kick 90% of workers out of a job.

    2. That being said, I agree that - as a political matter, some form of wealth redistribution is necessary in order to increase stability.

    [indent]2a. However, a minimum wage isn't a means of wealth redistribution. It's just a price-floor. One that serves to keep our lowest-educated and lowest-skilled potential workers trapped out of the market. There are people whose value-added is not $15 an hour. A $15 an hour MW doesn't redistribute skills to them, or redistribute work experience. It also doesn't redistribute money. All it does is make them structurally unemployable.

    What are your alternatives?
    I am delighted you asked, because it gives me yet another chance to hawk my plan to lift every single American citizen out of poverty, reduce costs to the federal, state, and local social safety net systems and make our tax revenues more stable.

    Remember, robots don't consume. Programs don't consume. And all of this movement towards automation is to REMOVE human workers, due to their inherent costs.
    Sort of. It's very similar to the automobile in that regard. We had multiple large industries that were built around the assumption that the horse would continue to be the main form of transportation - leather workers, farriers, vets, stables, poop-scoopers, you name it. Put out of work when the automobile came along and took over American society. But are we dominated today by hordes of jobless blacksmiths and horse-trainers? No. Those workers were reallocated to other tasks once their labor became available.

    That's what the market does when a resource (such as labor) becomes available - it allocates it to a productive end. So long as some bright fool doesn't come along with a jacked up idea for a price floor on that item that makes it prohibitive to use.

    So don't cop out with the "Those workers will move to other industries" meme. I assure you, it's NOT going to play out like that this time around,
    Ah yes, of course..... this time it's always different.... because it is. Got it.

    and it's already been beaten to death in other threads, threads which I believe you have participated in, and even, by silence, conceded. Correct me if I'm wrong, lol.
    sometimes I do get bored and leave threads. I don't think I've ever conceded in an argument about whether or not there would be a demand for low-income labor were it allowed.

    I simply don't see any way around this. It's this, or crash, and face some sort french style revolution, which I'd rather not.
    Simply because you lack imagination to come up with new ways to use low-income workers does not mean that the aggregate ingenuity of 330 million people will. You are pretty smart, but you aren't that smart - none of us are:

    "The growth of the Internet will slow drastically, as the flaw in 'Metcalfe's law'–which states that the number of potential connections in a network is proportional to the square of the number of participants–becomes apparent: most people have nothing to say to each other! By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's."

    - Paul Krugman, 1998
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