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Thread: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

  1. #181
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by maxparrish View Post
    4) The 9 dollar burger will now be 12 dollar burger. With decreased demand, some suppliers will cease business. "Dining" business will flow to a business that provide alternative, substitute products and services (e.g. business goes from an independent table service diner to a McDonald's franchise). In the process, consumer preference suffers a loss.

    In sum, minimum wage is:

    -Good for retained employees still working full hours (in the short run).
    -Bad for the most affected business owners
    -Bad for unhired/laid off/ or reduced hour employee.
    -Bad for customers and customer preference.
    -Bad for job expansion.

    There is no free lunch.
    I'd be interested in seeing some supporting evidence regarding your figures showing a 33% increase in the selling price of a hamburger.

    I've typically seen figures showing very minimal increases of pennies or several percent on the price of a sandwich (often referenced to a 'Big Mac').

    Your macro analysis strikes me as reasonably accurate in an academic sense, but I believe you are inaccurate as to matter-of-degree - I suspect the negative effects you describe will be generally minor & negligible; also, costs to the average employer will be somewhat ameliorated by the savings due to employee retention in these traditionally high turn-over jobs.

    In short - I believe you've got it right in theory, but are in error as to matter-of-degree in real-world application.
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  2. #182
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Thread synopsis: California's economy is compared unfavorably to republican controlled states, notably Texas. Predictions of it crumbling into the sea amid cheers are high.
    Arizona Bay would certainly be an improvement n

  3. #183
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    I'd be interested in seeing some supporting evidence regarding your figures showing a 33% increase in the selling price of a hamburger.

    I've typically seen figures showing very minimal increases of pennies or several percent on the price of a sandwich (often referenced to a 'Big Mac').

    Your macro analysis strikes me as reasonably accurate in an academic sense, but I believe you are inaccurate as to matter-of-degree - I suspect the negative effects you describe will be generally minor & negligible; also, costs to the average employer will be somewhat ameliorated by the savings due to employee retention in these traditionally high turn-over jobs.

    In short - I believe you've got it right in theory, but are in error as to matter-of-degree in real-world application.
    First, to correct a misimpression - my example was a thought experiment, an illustration of the economic forces in play. Whether there is a 3 cent difference or a 3 dollar difference in burgers, the effects are the same in kind (but, obviously, not in degree). The "burger" prices are illustrative, not empirically known.

    Second, if one wants to speculate on burgers I suggest you use the old restaurant rule 1/3rd of the selling price of a dish goes to labor. For example, if labor costs went up 50 percent, then the dish needs to be increased by (.5 x .33) = 16.5 percent and/or the business needs to cut costs (e.g. fire the water boy and reduce some employee work hours or benefits).

    Finally, there seems to be two kinds reactions to criticism of minimum wage law; either a poster (e.g. Jet57) is motivated by candid hostility to shop proprietors ("I don't feel sorry for...") OR, more commonly, the assertion that the overall effect is not that bad or important on a 'macro' level. I think that those who focus on the latter are missing the point this is NOT an issue over changes in a City's general employment rates or general economy; its an issue over those that are affected by minimum wage legislation.

    For the affected group, small increases have small effects, large increases have large effects (for both employers and employees). Previous increases in minimum wage have been rather temperate - but a jump of 50 percent is not.

  4. #184
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    there is no evidence of this at all as any increase in money is offset by the increase in prices. not to mention increased taxes on that money.
    it also has no effect when you work 24 hours a week if that and make the same amount of money.

    there is also no evidence that they will spend it in that business.

    no when the floor is raised business costs go up and so do prices and reduced staff to offset costs.
    No evidence huh?


    So why doesn’t Wal-Mart just improve its public image by raising its wages? Those same Berkeley researchers estimated that the company could boost its pay to a minimum of $12 per hour and cover the additional expense by a one-time price hike of just 1.1%, costing the average Wal-Mart shopper only an extra $12.50 per year

    Raising The Minimum Wage Would Be Good For Wal-Mart, And America - Forbes

    $12.50 a year is hardly supportive of your claim.

    Your turn to back up your claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mac77 View Post
    Fox has plenty of political commentators already. Their job is to tell us what they think and what we should think
    MEIN COVFEFE!

  5. #185
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Not the ones who lose their jobs.
    Myth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mac77 View Post
    Fox has plenty of political commentators already. Their job is to tell us what they think and what we should think
    MEIN COVFEFE!

  6. #186
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by maxparrish View Post
    First, to correct a misimpression - my example was a thought experiment, an illustration of the economic forces in play. Whether there is a 3 cent difference or a 3 dollar difference in burgers, the effects are the same in kind (but, obviously, not in degree). The "burger" prices are illustrative, not empirically known.

    Second, if one wants to speculate on burgers I suggest you use the old restaurant rule 1/3rd of the selling price of a dish goes to labor. For example, if labor costs went up 50 percent, then the dish needs to be increased by (.5 x .33) = 16.5 percent and/or the business needs to cut costs (e.g. fire the water boy and reduce some employee work hours or benefits).

    Finally, there seems to be two kinds reactions to criticism of minimum wage law; either a poster (e.g. Jet57) is motivated by candid hostility to shop proprietors ("I don't feel sorry for...") OR, more commonly, the assertion that the overall effect is not that bad or important on a 'macro' level. I think that those who focus on the latter are missing the point this is NOT an issue over changes in a City's general employment rates or general economy; its an issue over those that are affected by minimum wage legislation.

    For the affected group, small increases have small effects, large increases have large effects (for both employers and employees). Previous increases in minimum wage have been rather temperate - but a jump of 50 percent is not.
    Well stated. Let's not also forget the aggregate impact of entry level pay increasing to $15.00/hr. Does not ALL payroll have to be reviewed to re-establish merit among those who have seen their effort rewarded by increases in compensation? Should the $14.50/hr worker now be increased to $18/hr.

    How about a delivery truck driver, or the warehouse worker supplying the goods to the restaurant? This isn't a one industry increase. This is across the board in the City of Los Angeles.

    Few people understand what it takes to cover $1 in increased costs to the bottom line. Trust me, it's been illustrated on these boards many times.

  7. #187
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    aaah....

    you see income which may or may not appear

    conservatives, by nature, take things as they happen, and plan for the worst, while hoping for the best

    you say more people will shop.....and buy our product.....there is no guarantee of that.....at all

    so expenses are the one thing we KNOW we need to control.....getting customers in the door, and having them buy our products is not totally in our control

    one more way progressives and conservatives differ on business.....

    i'll let you decide which way is the most prudent
    You are the third person in as many posts who does this liberals and conservatives thing in their posts as a condescending tone of debate. I find the similarities of such a superiority attitude between multiple posters interesting.

    As far as differing pragmatism between progressives and conservatives in business, I guess you can take that up with that failing liberal business Costco who pays their employees closer to $20 an hour.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mac77 View Post
    Fox has plenty of political commentators already. Their job is to tell us what they think and what we should think
    MEIN COVFEFE!

  8. #188
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    no your plan will not work because people already come to america for the reasons you say they will not in your plan.
    They come be a use they can find the jobs. Start jailing employers and that all goes away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mac77 View Post
    Fox has plenty of political commentators already. Their job is to tell us what they think and what we should think
    MEIN COVFEFE!

  9. #189
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    $15 = $5 = $500 = $5000, depending on what the market dictates.

    Why don't people understand that flooding the market with money doesn't change the inherent value of the product or service? It only decreases the value of the money itself.

  10. #190
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    You are the third person in as many posts who does this liberals and conservatives thing in their posts as a condescending tone of debate. I find the similarities of such a superiority attitude between multiple posters interesting.

    As far as differing pragmatism between progressives and conservatives in business, I guess you can take that up with that failing liberal business Costco who pays their employees closer to $20 an hour.

    this isnt making the change at one place, with a great business model

    it is making the change at EVERY place across the board....

    places running well....places barely staying afloat

    will some companies do okay....sure

    will others go under....you bet

    the only question i will ask you

    overall, will the economy of the LA basin be better or worse two years after implementation?

    neither of us can guarantee an answer either way

    but lets just use local unemployment

    will that go up or down based on this change?

    and are you willing to put a wager on that?
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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