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Thread: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    The sky is not falling. I can tell you from direct experience that both Oakland AND San Francisco are doing just fine. In fact, I'll turn it around on you; if you can't afford to do business in either city, then go elsewhere. Isn't that what conservatives say about lower wages and the cost of housing? Restaurant prices are still the same, museums and everything else. Housing is going through the roof though, only because that's the market! so apartments and houses have more and more people in them. Nope sorry, if business won't take care of business, then people have to.
    Well, there are others with direct experience in the areas you mention who have discovered a different reality.


    “San Francisco is about to raise minimum wage to the nation’s highest at $15/hour over the next three years – a 43% hike. While we at Comix Experience absolutely support a living wage, this unprecedented increase will put a huge pressure on small businesses like ours. To put it into raw numbers, given our current staffing (and we run very tight), we will soon have to generate an additional $80,000 a year in sales just to meet the rise.”

    But that may not last. Hibbs says that the $15-an-hour minimum wage will require a staggering $80,000 in extra revenue annually. “I was appalled!” he says. “My jaw dropped. Eighty-thousand a year! I didn’t know that. I thought we were talking a small amount of money, something I could absorb.”

    When Minimum-Wage Hikes Hit a San Francisco Comic-Book Store | National Review Online
    President Donald J Trump, 45th President of the United States of America. A victory born in the hearts and minds of Everyday Americans

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    Not quite. It's been 12.25 since the first of this month, it was 11.05 at the first of the year, and will reach 15.00 July of 2018. The effects of this increase are still an unknown.

    City and County of San Francisco : Minimum Wage Ordinance (MWO)
    Nothing happened when it jumped form (I think) $8.75 to $11.05, and nothing's going to happen now. Businesses charge [i]what the market will bear, and in S.F. it's always been high, so I don't feel sorry for them at all.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Well, there are others with direct experience in the areas you mention who have discovered a different reality.


    “San Francisco is about to raise minimum wage to the nation’s highest at $15/hour over the next three years – a 43% hike. While we at Comix Experience absolutely support a living wage, this unprecedented increase will put a huge pressure on small businesses like ours. To put it into raw numbers, given our current staffing (and we run very tight), we will soon have to generate an additional $80,000 a year in sales just to meet the rise.”

    But that may not last. Hibbs says that the $15-an-hour minimum wage will require a staggering $80,000 in extra revenue annually. “I was appalled!” he says. “My jaw dropped. Eighty-thousand a year! I didn’t know that. I thought we were talking a small amount of money, something I could absorb.”

    When Minimum-Wage Hikes Hit a San Francisco Comic-Book Store | National Review Online
    You're in a nice neighborhood, I've seen the shop many times. How about you're paying to much in lease rates... ever thought about that?
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    How about you're paying to much in lease rates... ever thought about that?
    How about the business owners successfully operated a couple of stores, and now remaining in business is questionable? Obviously, never thought about that.
    President Donald J Trump, 45th President of the United States of America. A victory born in the hearts and minds of Everyday Americans

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Not all but most yes. The average education of an American citizen faaaaarr outstrips the average education of the Mexican and Central American immigrant that is moving here. And if an employer has to choose an employee where subverting the wage isn't a bonus for that employer... then they'll go for the more educated one more often than not.



    People around the world wouldn't come here because they couldn't get hired.



    Exactly. So they won't come here because no one will hire them. You are making my point here.



    If they don't have a job, they don't get a work visa. If they have no work visa they can't come here or stay here.



    Clearly I have. You are spinning in circles trying to fabricate excuses and you are doing nothing but making my point for me and you can't even see it.


    no your plan will not work because people already come to america for the reasons you say they will not in your plan.

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    The sky is not falling. I can tell you from direct experience that both Oakland AND San Francisco are doing just fine. In fact, I'll turn it around on you; if you can't afford to do business in either city, then go elsewhere. Isn't that what conservatives say about lower wages and the cost of housing? Restaurant prices are still the same, museums and everything else. Housing is going through the roof though, only because that's the market! so apartments and houses have more and more people in them. Nope sorry, if business won't take care of business, then people have to.
    why do you think companies are abandoning CA in general? their are simply better places out there to do business in.
    no restaurant prices have gone up more so your local places more than your chains. however I have noticed that even chain prices have gone up as well.

    businesses pay what the position is worth and being a bus boy or a dishwasher or a cashier doesn't entitle you to 15 bucks an hour

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Nothing happened when it jumped form (I think) $8.75 to $11.05, and nothing's going to happen now. Businesses charge [i]what the market will bear, and in S.F. it's always been high, so I don't feel sorry for them at all.
    I just showed that it did and you were proven wrong and I am sure that there were more that were not reported.

    businesses cannot justify paying low skill no skill workers 15 dollars

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    you posted it is already happening it will just become more prevalent.
    why?

    you can't justify paying a cashier 15 dollars an hour.
    you can't justify paying a bag boy 15 dollars an hour
    and the list goes on and on.

    nothing they do justifies 15 dollars an hour.
    Yes, it (technological efficiency) is already happening - as I stated, it's occuring in my area with a MUCH LOWER minimum wage than that proposed, where it is prevalent & growing.

    You've done nothing to show the causal relationship regarding technological adaption as implied in your original reply to me, where you posted:

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    yep and we will see how many businesses stay in business and how many low skill workers lose their jobs. it will be great as automated ordering machines will pick up in business.
    ol wait they don't have the skills to do that job.

    no more bag boys go bag your own groceries.
    more automated checkouts.


    here I thought liberals weren't against poor people so why would you price them out of a job?
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    San Francisco has had a $12 minimum wage for some time now and everything's fine.
    As is the case with Seattle, San Francisco has a highly-educated workforce (52.4% with bachelor's degrees or above vs. the national average of 28.8%). The end result is very low unemployment (4.2% rate vs. 5.6% national rate in March), high productivity (per capita income of $48,486 vs. the national average of $28,155) and high incomes (median household income of $75,604 vs. the national average of $53,046). Of course, even there, there will be some economic dislocation.

    Los Angeles is in a worse position. A large share of Los Angeles' population is under-educated (25.5% have no high school diploma vs. the national average of 14.0%). As the unemployment rate is directly correlated with educational attainment and job security is also greater with higher educational attainment, it isn't surprising that Los Angeles currently has a 6.6% unemployment rate (vs. 5.6% in the U.S. in March), along with lower productivity ($27,829 per capita income) and lower median household income ($49,497) than San Francisco (or Seattle) and a poverty rate more than 50% above the national average. Lower-skilled jobs often come with a lack of benefits and 28.3% of Los Angeles residents under the age of 65 lacked health coverage (vs. 15.3% nationwide). Los Angeles' economy is in a much weaker position than San Francisco's or Seattle's to cope with a $15 per hour minimum wage.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 05-21-15 at 01:13 PM.

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    This is a key point. Assuming a business seeks to pass its increased costs to customers by raising its prices, its supply curve shifts to the left (by the amount it has increased its prices). If demand for its products/services remains unchanged, fewer units are sold. Even with the increased price, some loss in revenue occurs....
    Extending your points:

    1) Labor is an input cost. If labor wages are set higher than market then the cost of production per unit of output rises.
    2) Labor has more to spend, the Business/owner has less to spend and invest. Demand (spending power) is redistributed, not increased nor decreased.
    3) The ability of an individual business to raise price is highly constrained by the market price. But if all businesses in a sector are affected by the labor cost increase, prices will rise AND demand for the product will fall.
    4) The 9 dollar burger will now be 12 dollar burger. With decreased demand, some suppliers will cease business. "Dining" business will flow to a business that provide alternative, substitute products and services (e.g. business goes from an independent table service diner to a McDonald's franchise). In the process, consumer preference suffers a loss.

    In sum, minimum wage is:

    -Good for retained employees still working full hours (in the short run).
    -Bad for the most affected business owners
    -Bad for unhired/laid off/ or reduced hour employee.
    -Bad for customers and customer preference.
    -Bad for job expansion.

    There is no free lunch.

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