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Thread: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

  1. #141
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Guy, that's a story from ONE store owner...whereas the links I presented (including from the local newspaper the Seattle Times) showed multiple store owners who say otherwise. But of course since it doesn't fit in with your particular worldview, facts need not apply. 'Cause reality has that liberal bias, y'know....
    It is one owner that is all that is needed to provide an example. plus I posted another article from a university in CA no less that shows raising minimum wage does have a negative effect.

    then you forget the economy of scale. if you want to pay the no skill worker a skilled worker wage then the skilled worker will want more money.
    if he doesn't get more money then you have devalued his skills and his job position.

    if he does get more money it means that prices will drive up even further and the people making minimum wage will still be at the bottom only worse off.
    if anything you hire more people and just work them 15 20 hours a week and they are still making the same amount of money.

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    I prefer this happens at the city level rather than at the national or even state level.

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yeah. Again. Absent a cost floor which makes purchase prohibitive, demand crashing by 70% is about just as ridiculous.



    Me neither. That's why I think that things like $15 MW laws are dumb. Automation doesn't make people structurally unemployable, it just makes them unemployable at their current position. That is unfortunately not true of cost floors that are higher than a workers' value-added.
    But those minimum wages AREN'T higher than the value added, else the business would promptly go OUT of business, or simply decide that the job they provide isn't all that necessary.
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    with no one to order food or supplies or direct people in what to do then no it wouldn't.
    again I can get someone already working to do the dishes. I don't need a separate person.

    you seem to forget that.
    And there are non CEOs that can place an order with a food distributor.


    Pulling someone to wash the dishes means by definition that that person is no longer doing some other job they were originally slated to do. What you are failing to address is the simple fact that, truly, the dishwasher is more important to the daily operation of a restaurant than an owner, or a CEO, unless part of that person's job description IS to wash dishes, in a pinch, lol.

    Ultimately, the JOB of dish washing, when not done, results in a closed restaurant MUCH faster than the JOB of a CEO not done does.
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    But those minimum wages AREN'T higher than the value added, else the business would promptly go OUT of business, or simply decide that the job they provide isn't all that necessary.
    Hey! There ya go!

    Or replace it more rapidly with capital, putting those workers out of a job, but now in an environment where they can't be rehired.
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    And there are non CEOs that can place an order with a food distributor.


    Pulling someone to wash the dishes means by definition that that person is no longer doing some other job they were originally slated to do. What you are failing to address is the simple fact that, truly, the dishwasher is more important to the daily operation of a restaurant than an owner, or a CEO, unless part of that person's job description IS to wash dishes, in a pinch, lol.

    Ultimately, the JOB of dish washing, when not done, results in a closed restaurant MUCH faster than the JOB of a CEO not done does.
    Actually what you do is you fire citizens and hire Mexicans.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    I posted facts stores in fact are closing and more will close as the cost of business continues to rise.
    I even linked an article from a new study out of CA no less on the negative affects of raising the minimum wage which you ignored.

    no you have a liberal bias and reality says otherwise.

    you also as I mentioned above for get economic scaling.
    Guy, stores close every year...and restaurants close more than any other. You posted showing how a store was closing and I posted in return showing how it had less to do with minimum wage than with good ol' competition - in other words, I know Seattle better than you do.

    And when it comes to CA, you'll find as time goes on that a rising tide lifts all boats - which is why raising the minimum wage is not nearly so destructive as you seem to think.

    Tell you what - why don't you go visit some nations where there's little or no minimum wage and the unions are weak or nonexistent...and after you spend some time there, get back to us and tell us how wonderfully strong their economies are.
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    It is one owner that is all that is needed to provide an example. plus I posted another article from a university in CA no less that shows raising minimum wage does have a negative effect.

    then you forget the economy of scale. if you want to pay the no skill worker a skilled worker wage then the skilled worker will want more money.
    if he doesn't get more money then you have devalued his skills and his job position.

    if he does get more money it means that prices will drive up even further and the people making minimum wage will still be at the bottom only worse off.
    if anything you hire more people and just work them 15 20 hours a week and they are still making the same amount of money.
    ONE store owner does not speak for all store owners...as you would know if you'd actually READ the articles which included statements from several other store owners.

    Like I said in the other reply, why don't you go visit some nations where there's little or no minimum wage, where the unions are weak or nonexistent, and after you spend some time there, come back to us and tell us how wonderfully strong their economies are.
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    yep and we will see how many businesses stay in business and how many low skill workers lose their jobs. it will be great as automated ordering machines will pick up in business.
    ol wait they don't have the skills to do that job.

    no more bag boys go bag your own groceries.
    more automated checkouts.

    here I thought liberals weren't against poor people so why would you price them out of a job?
    I live in a state where the minimum wage is barely half the $15 minimum proposed here, and self-bag & automated check-outs are now prevalent (& growing).

    It appears your logic may be flawed as to this specific example, at least.
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by maxparrish View Post
    That is an odd comment, that a geographic area (Seattle) can be 'well-positioned'? If the cost of labor goes up, and employers reduce Seattle jobs, then Seattle will offer fewer jobs (or lower job growth) than it would otherwise. And the only 'better-positioned' in Seattle are those that are retained because they are the most skilled and educated, while the affected groups (teens, minorities, unskilled, entry level, youth, trainees) will have to go elsewhere (or be unemployed). Someone has to go,(or is not hired), even if every bus-boy in Seattle had a Masters Degree.
    "Well-positioned" means that the industry structure (knowledge-oriented economy reliant to a larger extent on skilled workers than many other local economies), educated populace (57% with a bachelors degree or higher), prevailing wages (some three quarters of workers already earn above the $15 per hour figure), etc., will result in a smaller economic shock than what one will likely see in a city such as Los Angeles where more than a quarter of the population lacks a high school diploma. Of course, there will be some labor market dislocations, but those could be relatively modest based on the characteristics of Seattle's economy and workforce. Of course, we'll have to wait for the data to become available to better assess the impact. By the beginning of 2017, large firms (500 or more employees) will have been required to have raised their wage to $15 per hour, so a body of data will be available.

    Finally, workers under age 18 and some independent contractors will not necessarily be required to be paid the full minimum wage ($15 Minimum Wage). As a result, there may actually be a risk that some of the lower-skilled positions could wind up being shifted to people under the age of 18.

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