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Thread: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    The stores closing, are they non chain book stores as the competition is fierce, causing many small bookstores to go under.
    does it matter? even chain store franchises are complaining that they are going to have issues paying people.

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    does it matter? even chain store franchises are complaining that they are going to have issues paying people.
    Point is relevant, wally mart and places like drive other small bus under.
    Books, most use readers, free open libraries. I still like the feel of a book, and buy one on occasion.
    More people hopping online. Affects the big box stores.

    Otherwise I download it.
    Restaurants rely on tips to subsidize waiters wages.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by Trojan View Post
    You're not answering my question. What a wonderful example of dodging and condescension, guy!

    It doesn't matter that we outpace them, there isn't a huge gap between Ireland, Canada and the U.K. and the United States. A 3%-5% change for a 50%-100% increase in minimum wage and introduction of more social safety nets isn't really helping your case. I will ask again:

    Why does the United Kingdom, Ireland, Canada, etc. have such high numbers of single-parent households, guy? They have substantial safety nets and relatively high minimum wages.

    They have the high standard of living you proclaim would create stable families, yet are close to the United States in terms of single-parent households. You cannot just ignore them as if they don't matter - that's cherry picking.
    'Scuse you. What's the average/median percentage of single parenthood (not counting the U.S.) in the chart you presented? Oh? What's that? SIXTEEN PERCENT? And what's the percentage in America? TWENTY-SEVEN PERCENT?

    Ah, we see now - you want to pick-and-choose the ones that are closest to America, even though they STILL aren't as bad off as America in this respect...but you don't want to address the rest at all.

    And that's the big question, guy - in YOUR world, you apparently believe that a high minimum wage and a comprehensive social safety net equals economic devastation and the destruction of the family unit...but the chart you presented shows something else entirely.

    So WHY is it, that the AVERAGE/MEDIAN rate of single parenthood in non-US nations in that chart YOU presented is ELEVEN PERCENTAGE POINTS BELOW THAT OF AMERICA???? Why are NONE of them as high as America's? You can't blame religion - Turkey's on the list. You can't blame immigration - or haven't you read what's going on with immigrants trying to get to Italy from north Africa?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by ARTHUR 1976 View Post
    Geez man your way out there, seriously a cashier is very productive, especially if you want your drawers to BALANCE, not to mention you have to have good people skills because you ate dealing with money, and emotions run high, it's harder than it looks, not to mention you have to keep your temper in check, and have sharp attention to detail..

    Janitor seriously get real, next time somebody walks into the john of your business and walks out because someone took a dump on the floor you lose money, all of your workforce is productive and should be given respect for what they do .

    You wanna pay lousy wages fine, your turnover rate is gonna sky rocket, and you will be counter productive, because you will spend all of tour time trying to find suckers to replace the guys who walked out on you, without notice of course..

    Nobody has a damn thing to lose walking out on some cheesy crap job, especially when they can get more on welfare..
    Which is PRECISELY what Harvard found when they compared Costco and Sam's Club. By paying even their entry-level workers a living wage, Costco's actually saving more money than they are spending in increased wages.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    I think I will believe the store owner over some sketchy website I have never heard of.
    again there are two different books stores also getting ready to close as well. those are just the ones we have heard about
    I am sure more small business owners will follow as they cannot afford the pay increases.

    you said find examples I found examples that shut down that minimum wage increases doesn't harm employee's or businesses.

    yep and who says people will pay the 5% increase? they might but not as often as they use to.
    it depends on the restaurant and whether they can increase it 5%.

    again Costco and sam's club target different people with different scales the comparison is apples and oranges.

    we will see what happens. I was in the outback the other day. other than having someone bring me my food a waitress was almost not needed with the ordering tablet at the table.
    for fast food automated ordering machines will replace cashiers.

    same thing in grocery stores. bag boys forget it.

    Minimum wage hike killed jobs, hurt low-skilled workers: study - Washington Times

    once again proven wrong. raising minimum wage hurts poor low skill no skill workers.

    why a business can't justify paying someone 15 dollars an hour on a job that doesn't earn it.
    Guy, that's a story from ONE store owner...whereas the links I presented (including from the local newspaper the Seattle Times) showed multiple store owners who say otherwise. But of course since it doesn't fit in with your particular worldview, facts need not apply. 'Cause reality has that liberal bias, y'know....
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Actually I was aware. I am also aware that that background, though interesting, has exactly zero impact on the purpose of using that quote, which was to demonstrate that even extremely intelligent people describing developments in their field will often prove vastly inferior to the accumulated abilities, knowledge, and ingenuity of thousands, millions, or tens of millions of less-well-informed individuals. Arguments that there will be no demand for low-skill labor in the future because one person or another cannot fathom a way to allocate that labor, therefore, are proceeding from a false assumption.
    That's an extremely desperate method of conveying that thought. If I were to quote your own prediction(s) of financial crisis across the globe, you'd respond in kind. The difference is, Time magazine didn't ask you to reach 100 years into the future.

    Context is key.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by Trojan View Post
    You're not answering my question. What a wonderful example of dodging and condescension, guy!

    It doesn't matter that we outpace them, there isn't a huge gap between Ireland, Canada and the U.K. and the United States. A 3%-5% change for a 50%-100% increase in minimum wage and introduction of more social safety nets isn't really helping your case. I will ask again:

    Why does the United Kingdom, Ireland, Canada, etc. have such high numbers of single-parent households, guy? They have substantial safety nets and relatively high minimum wages.

    They have the high standard of living you proclaim would create stable families, yet are close to the United States in terms of single-parent households. You cannot just ignore them as if they don't matter - that's cherry picking.
    The safety nets you speak of are not as grand as many would think. We also have higher taxes as well.
    They are quite rigid and do prevent people from improving their life as all benefits are cut off when employed. Double edged sword.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

  8. #138
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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Point is relevant, wally mart and places like drive other small bus under.
    Books, most use readers, free open libraries. I still like the feel of a book, and buy one on occasion.
    More people hopping online. Affects the big box stores.

    Otherwise I download it.
    Restaurants rely on tips to subsidize waiters wages.
    actually when you see walmart you see about 30 other stores open around it for good reason.

    actually book stores operate on thin margins as they have no way of raising prices as the prices are set by the publishers on the book.
    so the only way to increase revenue is to let people go.

    actually not really the waiters will still get minimum wage. now the problem exists if they only make 10 dollars an hour in tips the restaurant will have to make up the other
    5 instead of not having to.

    then there is the big thing you forget and that is economy of scale.

    IE the burger guy now makes 15. the IT tech needs to now make 20 in which he was making 15.

    it is the order of progression. you have just caused massive inflation.

    what is worse is if no one sees a pay increase that means actually skilled labor jobs have been devalued by a large percentage.

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Guy, that's a story from ONE store owner...whereas the links I presented (including from the local newspaper the Seattle Times) showed multiple store owners who say otherwise. But of course since it doesn't fit in with your particular worldview, facts need not apply. 'Cause reality has that liberal bias, y'know....
    I posted facts stores in fact are closing and more will close as the cost of business continues to rise.
    I even linked an article from a new study out of CA no less on the negative affects of raising the minimum wage which you ignored.

    no you have a liberal bias and reality says otherwise.

    you also as I mentioned above for get economic scaling.

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    Re: Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Several points:

    1. Seattle's $15 per hour minimum wage isn't the reason the Seattle area has such a strong economy; its strong economy leverages such factors as a highly-educated populace (57% of Seattle residents have Bachelor's Degrees or higher while fewer than 7% lacked high school diplomas), and is a reason the minimum wage increase (just now being phased in) will very likely have a much smaller adverse impact than that in Los Angeles.

    2. The law will impact approximately 102,000 workers having wages between $9.32 per hour (Washington's minimum wage) and $15 per hour, or about a quarter of Seattle's workforce: Study: $15 wage floor would lift pay for 24% of Seattle workers | The Seattle Times
    The impact of the Seattle minimum wage will be in direct proportion to the number of workers affected and the difference between the market wage and the minimum wage in 2020. A large difference means a large effect, a small difference means a small effect. The issue of minimum wage has never been over general employment levels of a workforce, it has always been about specific categories of labor (teens, entry level, the unskilled, minorities, etc.).

    If it actually applies to one quarter of Seattle's workforce, that would be very substantial - only several percent of American jobs (as a whole) are impacted by federal minimum wage.

    ... but the actual data will be essential to measuring the impact in Seattle. Right now, there's no conclusive evidence of a major impact (which may lend support to the modest impact scenario), but it's premature to reach firm conclusions right now.

    IMO, Seattle is well-positioned to handle its $15 per hour minimum wage with only modest adverse labor market and broader industry structure and economic effects. Los Angeles, with more than a quarter of its population lacking a high school diploma and fewer than a third possessing college degrees, is in a notably weaker position than Seattle.
    That is an odd comment, that a geographic area (Seattle) can be 'well-positioned'? If the cost of labor goes up, and employers reduce Seattle jobs, then Seattle will offer fewer jobs (or lower job growth) than it would otherwise. And the only 'better-positioned' in Seattle are those that are retained because they are the most skilled and educated, while the affected groups (teens, minorities, unskilled, entry level, youth, trainees) will have to go elsewhere (or be unemployed). Someone has to go,(or is not hired), even if every bus-boy in Seattle had a Masters Degree.

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