Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 67

Thread: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

  1. #31
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 12:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    11,691

    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    I finally had a chance to read through the study. A number of points:

    1. The paper makes numerous assumptions (all of which are spelled out) and concedes that some of its methodologies and assumptions "may be subject to large uncertainties and controversies." One example might be its figures based on traffic accidents. While the fuel might change, if a cleaner fuel allows for at least the same intensity of driving as is presently the case, there would be little accident-related savings.
    2. The paper's approach for estimating the subsidies based on estimated externalities is a fairly common methodology.
    3. The paper attributes only 22.3% of the total subsidies (pre- and post-tax) to climate change-related effects and 46.0% to local air pollution (particulates, etc.).
    4. The paper also employs sensitivity analysis to "test" sets of scenarios. Based on reducing/increasing estimated air pollution damages by 50%, the post-tax subsidy would range from 4.7% to 8.3% of global GDP vs. the baseline estimate of 6.5% for 2015.

    Having said that, IMO, the analysis isn't sufficiently complete for a comprehensive policy shift. It arrives at a figure for the extent of subsidies based on externalities. What it fails to do is to robustly examine the full impact on global GDP for the status quo (baseline) vs. alternative scenarios (though some other work is emerging in this area). For example, coal (no surprise given its air pollution intensity) accounts for the largest share of subsidies. If all coal usage were eliminated (a reasonable medium or long-term goal, but not practical in the short-term), there would be insufficient energy substitutes at present, leading to an energy price impact and global economic impact. Having an estimate of that global economic impact would be valuable, as it could better inform policy makers as to the opportunity costs associated with various policy choices. Estimates of subsidies provides part of the picture, but the full picture requires a robust assessment of the overall economic impact, given the macroeconomic linkages to incomes, poverty, etc. Clearly, a transition period will be required and until one has strong opportunity cost data, the details will remain murky on account of competing interests being able to leverage the opportunity cost uncertainty.

    As noted in numerous past threads, I accept the scientific consensus on climate change (including the anthropogenic driver) and favor a policy path that reduces greenhouse gas emissions. Nevertheless, I recognize that one can't get from the present energy mix to a largely carbon-free one for some time (lack of alternatives, need for changing the energy infrastructure, etc.). A realistic path will need to consider the overall macroeconomic and socioeconomic impacts of various alternative policy paths. This study provides useful information i.e., some share of the subsidies could be utilized for financing cleaner technology/R&D, reducing coal usage would be a logical starting point for a cleaner energy path, etc., but does not provide the amount of information needed to materially move policy from the business-as-usual path.

  2. #32
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    LMAO !!! Nonsense

    Their own Finance minister has publicly declared that their " Energy revolution " is a failure.

    They entered into this purely ideological and hare braind initiative of being the first Nation to being powered by renewable energy sources and now they're more dependant on Coal than they were before they shut down their nuke plants.

    So the German citizens pay 300 percent more for their electricity than the average American citizen and their air is dirtier because now they're forced to build Coal fired power plants to make up for the inherent power lapses that come with Solar and Wind power.

    Its unreal.

    Its ideology over common sense.
    You can't plan a energy revolution, fail to meet the funding goals, and then blame renewables. And the ideology of dirty fossil fuels, which even you point out are heavily polluting German skies, is not sustainable in the long run.

    Setback for Merkel's Vision: Funding Shortage Threatens Germany's Energy Revolution

    Germany's climate fund, a cornerstone of the government's much hyped transition towards renewable energy, has been massively underfunded during its first year of operation. The Green Party has accused the government of failing in its plan to create an energy revolution.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #33
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,321

    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    You can't plan a energy revolution, fail to meet the funding goals, and then blame renewables. And the ideology of dirty fossil fuels, which even you point out are heavily polluting German skies, is not sustainable in the long run.

    Setback for Merkel's Vision: Funding Shortage Threatens Germany's Energy Revolution

    Germany's climate fund, a cornerstone of the government's much hyped transition towards renewable energy, has been massively underfunded during its first year of operation. The Green Party has accused the government of failing in its plan to create an energy revolution.
    Oh BS.

    Germany didn't know there were lapses inherent with using wind and solar before they entered into this debacle ?

    Sure they did. Anyone with a lick of common sense knows that.

    The only reason why Germany is " polluting " their air is because they entered into this ridiculous agenda based on a bunch of manufactured narratives.

    There was NO qualitative or quantitatives objective analysis prior to this idiotic iniative.


    And " massively underfunded "...???
    LOL !!!

    From massive Government subsidies to increased cost on consumers via tax increases and surcharges Germany's " green revolution " has been subsidized through the roof and its STILL failing

    German citizens pay 300 percent more for their electricity than the average American and Germany is still threatening to raise their surcharges annually to pay for this boondoggle.

    No amount of funding in the world will make up for adhering to a inferior technology.

    You have no idea what your'e talking about.

  4. #34
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Oh BS.

    Germany didn't know there were lapses inherent with using wind and solar before they entered into this debacle ?

    Sure they did. Anyone with a lick of common sense knows that.

    The only reason why Germany is " polluting " their air is because they entered into this ridiculous agenda based on a bunch of manufactured narratives.

    There was NO qualitative or quantitatives objective analysis prior to this idiotic iniative.


    And " massively underfunded "...???
    LOL !!!

    From massive Government subsidies to increased cost on consumers via tax increases and surcharges Germany's " green revolution " has been subsidized through the roof and its STILL failing

    German citizens pay 300 percent more for their electricity than the average American and Germany is still threatening to raise their surcharges annually to pay for this boondoggle.

    No amount of funding in the world will make up for adhering to a inferior technology.

    You have no idea what your'e talking about.
    An under funded program will not be a fully functioning program. That's pretty basic.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #35
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Oh BS.

    Germany didn't know there were lapses inherent with using wind and solar before they entered into this debacle ?

    Sure they did. Anyone with a lick of common sense knows that.

    The only reason why Germany is " polluting " their air is because they entered into this ridiculous agenda based on a bunch of manufactured narratives.

    There was NO qualitative or quantitatives objective analysis prior to this idiotic iniative.


    And " massively underfunded "...???
    LOL !!!

    From massive Government subsidies to increased cost on consumers via tax increases and surcharges Germany's " green revolution " has been subsidized through the roof and its STILL failing

    German citizens pay 300 percent more for their electricity than the average American and Germany is still threatening to raise their surcharges annually to pay for this boondoggle.

    No amount of funding in the world will make up for adhering to a inferior technology.

    You have no idea what your'e talking about.
    Lol. You obviously are looking the wrong way. And it's not that fossil fuels is sound energy policy that keeps republicans coming back for more.

    In the 2006 election cycle, oil and gas companies contributed over $19 million to political campaigns. 82% of that money went to Republican candidates, while the remaining 18% went to Democrats.

    The energy lobby has a history of conflict with international interests and democratic global governance. According to the International Sustainable Energy Organization for Renewable Energy and Energy Efficiency the second World Climate Conference "was sabotaged by the USA and oil lobbies"

    Fossil fuels lobby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  6. #36
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,321

    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    An under funded program will not be a fully functioning program. That's pretty basic.
    Nonsense, AGAIN German citizens pay 300 percent more for their electricity than the average American citizen because of cost increases passed onto them by a Government who foolishly entered into a ' renewable energy " initiative without any attempt to do a objective evaluation prior to shutting down their nuke Power plants.

    Germany has entire wind farms off their coast that are NOT even tied into their grid because they've run out of money and the German people are rebelling against more mandated cost increases Via NEW surcharges and taxes.


    Its not lack of funding, its the fact that the German " green revolution " was based on a purely ideological approach to solving their energy issues.

    Their own Finance minister declared their energy revolution a total failure. I guess some hack on the internet knows more about Germany's finances than their own Government.

    Its the fact that a inferior technology was shoved down these people's throats.

    Its people like you who were and still are naive enough to buy into this nonsense. People like you who are to blame for the fact that Germany's # 1 energy IMPORT is now brown coal.

    I thought Libs cared about the environment.

  7. #37
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Nonsense, AGAIN German citizens pay 300 percent more for their electricity than the average American citizen because of cost increases passed onto them by a Government who foolishly entered into a ' renewable energy " initiative without any attempt to do a objective evaluation prior to shutting down their nuke Power plants.

    Germany has entire wind farms off their coast that are NOT even tied into their grid because they've run out of money and the German people are rebelling against more mandated cost increases Via NEW surcharges and taxes.


    Its not lack of funding, its the fact that the German " green revolution " was based on a purely ideological approach to solving their energy issues.

    Their own Finance minister declared their energy revolution a total failure. I guess some hack on the internet knows more about Germany's finances than their own Government.

    Its the fact that a inferior technology was shoved down these people's throats.

    Its people like you who were and still are naive enough to buy into this nonsense. People like you who are to blame for the fact that Germany's # 1 energy IMPORT is now brown coal.

    I thought Libs cared about the environment.
    Ok, I'll repeat myself then too! The green revolution didn't get properly funded.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  8. #38
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,321

    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Ok, I'll repeat myself then too! The green revolution didn't get properly funded.
    LOL !!

    According to who ? Some guy on a internet forum ?

    I'm posting the ACTUAL consequences of one of the most irresponsible energy polices ever implemented and you're giving me your opinion.

    Save your opinion, its worthless.

  9. #39
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    LOL !!

    According to who ? Some guy on a internet forum ?

    I'm posting the ACTUAL consequences of one of the most irresponsible energy polices ever implemented and you're giving me your opinion.

    Save your opinion, its worthless.
    Before your head explodes in arrogance, you're just some guy on an Internet forum too. Man dude, your really taken a beating today.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #40
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,321

    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Before your head explodes in arrogance, you're just some guy on an Internet forum too. Man dude, your really taken a beating today.
    I'm posting facts, your'e pretending you know more than the German Government AND the German Finance Minister

    Tell me , where is all this funding for Germany's Green revolution supposed to come from ?

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •