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Thread: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    No idea if the article is accurate..but if the IMF told me the sky was blue, then I would assume that it must NOT be blue...even if it was it was Noon and there was not a cloud in the sky (or an eclipse).

    The IMF are about the most pathetic world organization in existence, imo.

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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Green energy is too expensive.

    Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF | Environment | The Guardian

    Fossil fuel companies are benefiting from global subsidies of $5.3tn (£3.4tn) a year, equivalent to $10m a minute every day, according to a startling new estimate by the International Monetary Fund. The IMF calls the revelation “shocking” and says the figure is an “extremely robust” estimate of the true cost of fossil fuels. The $5.3tn subsidy estimated for 2015 is greater than the total health spending of all the world’s governments. The vast sum is largely due to polluters not paying the costs imposed on governments by the burning of coal, oil and gas. These include the harm caused to local populations by air pollution as well as to people across the globe affected by the floods, droughts and storms being driven by climate change. Nicholas Stern, an eminent climate economist at the London School of Economics, said: “This very important analysis shatters the myth that fossil fuels are cheap by showing just how huge their real costs are. There is no justification for these enormous subsidies for fossil fuels, which distort markets and damages economies, particularly in poorer countries.”

    Lord Stern said that even the IMF’s vast subsidy figure was a significant underestimate: “A more complete estimate of the costs due to climate change would show the implicit subsidies for fossil fuels are much bigger even than this report suggests.” The IMF, one of the world’s most respected financial institutions, said that ending subsidies for fossil fuels would cut global carbon emissions by 20%. That would be a giant step towards taming global warming, an issue on which the world has made little progress to date. Ending the subsidies would also slash the number of premature deaths from outdoor air pollution by 50% – about 1.6 million lives a year. Furthermore, the IMF said the resources freed by ending fossil fuel subsidies could be an economic “game-changer” for many countries, by driving economic growth and poverty reduction through greater investment in infrastructure, health and education and also by cutting taxes that restrict growth.
    The IMF is not impeccable and this is certainly one instance of them ****ING up because of spewing BULL****.
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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    So you're basically saying that the entire concept of cost accounting is nonsense?
    "Cost accounting???" Someone needs to restart their 'So's Law' medications. He neither said nor implied anything watsoever about "cost accounting." Nor can what he said be remotely construed that way either.

    What he IS saying is that that article is a crock of leftwing political hackery, appealing to leftwing bias, seeking any poor schmoe's need to have their biases confirmed.

    He rightly points out one of the author's logical flaws (which you somehow managed to interpret as a denunciation of cost accounting), flaws of which there are many. And what is the author's main premise (and 'tell')? It's how the author laments so much money not being spent on better things (in his mind) - like the environment, like healthcare...

    Sheesh... "cost accounting??"
    Who chimes "No Absolutes!" chimes absolutely.

    zoom zoom

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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    Also then you look at oil you have had the huge military, political and economical cost of being dependent of oil fron the extremly unstable middle east, that IMF didn't include in their report.
    This at the same time both wind and solar power is expanding rapidly and getting a lot cheaper.



    Solar Power To Become Cheapest Source Of Energy In Many Regions By 2025, German Experts Say




    Germany leads record wind power growth in Europe | Environment | The Guardian

    That thanks to some countries like Germany that did take the lead in the transition to renewable energy, ecomomic of scale and the initial science and product development cost was accomplished so that renewable energy could become competitive to other form of energy production.

    German Energy Transition
    LOL !!!

    Even Germany's own Minister of Finance has admitted that Germany's " green revolution " has been a total failure.

    Now Germans pay 300 percent more for their electricity than the average American citizens and they're more dependant on Coal than they were before they shut down their nukes.

    So their consumers pay more for energy and their air is dirtier.
    Thats some progress
    Last edited by Fenton; 05-19-15 at 09:37 AM.
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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Green energy is too expensive.

    Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF | Environment | The Guardian

    Fossil fuel companies are benefiting from global subsidies of $5.3tn (£3.4tn) a year, equivalent to $10m a minute every day, according to a startling new estimate by the International Monetary Fund. The IMF calls the revelation “shocking” and says the figure is an “extremely robust” estimate of the true cost of fossil fuels. The $5.3tn subsidy estimated for 2015 is greater than the total health spending of all the world’s governments. The vast sum is largely due to polluters not paying the costs imposed on governments by the burning of coal, oil and gas. These include the harm caused to local populations by air pollution as well as to people across the globe affected by the floods, droughts and storms being driven by climate change. Nicholas Stern, an eminent climate economist at the London School of Economics, said: “This very important analysis shatters the myth that fossil fuels are cheap by showing just how huge their real costs are. There is no justification for these enormous subsidies for fossil fuels, which distort markets and damages economies, particularly in poorer countries.”

    Lord Stern said that even the IMF’s vast subsidy figure was a significant underestimate: “A more complete estimate of the costs due to climate change would show the implicit subsidies for fossil fuels are much bigger even than this report suggests.” The IMF, one of the world’s most respected financial institutions, said that ending subsidies for fossil fuels would cut global carbon emissions by 20%. That would be a giant step towards taming global warming, an issue on which the world has made little progress to date. Ending the subsidies would also slash the number of premature deaths from outdoor air pollution by 50% – about 1.6 million lives a year. Furthermore, the IMF said the resources freed by ending fossil fuel subsidies could be an economic “game-changer” for many countries, by driving economic growth and poverty reduction through greater investment in infrastructure, health and education and also by cutting taxes that restrict growth.
    "The vast sum is largely due to polluters not paying the costs imposed on governments by the burning of coal, oil and gas"

    And thus the article has no basis in fact. Govt makes up a number: the cost of pollution is 578 flugelhorns. You are not paying us 578 flugelhorns, therefore we are subsidzing you to the tune of 578 flugelhorns! (carbon credits or whatever).
    Last edited by jonny5; 05-19-15 at 10:04 AM.

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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    No idea if the article is accurate..but if the IMF told me the sky was blue, then I would assume that it must NOT be blue...even if it was it was Noon and there was not a cloud in the sky (or an eclipse).

    The IMF are about the most pathetic world organization in existence, imo.
    The U.S. government has by far the largest share of votes in both the IMF and World Bank and, along with its closest allies, effectively controls their operations. In 1998, the U.S. held 18% of the votes in the IMF and 15% in the World Bank. Together, the United States, Germany, Japan, the U.K. and France control about 40% of the shares in both institutions. With the rest of the shares spread among 175 other member governments, some holding a tiny number of votes, the United States is effectively in charge.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Yes, well that certainly is a good way to understand the crazy ideas some conservatives advance, I agree. Let them make public statements that illustrate the irrational thought processes that drive public policy ideas.
    Are you talking crazy ideas like Samdy Hook being fake and nuclear weapons destroyed the twin towers. I agree that we should encourage people who think such nonsense to keep talking. That way everyone will know just how much to value those peoples opinions and their ability to understand the topics being discussed.

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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    With a long history of coal mining and heavy industry and the aforementioned winter gloom, Germany is not the country you’d naturally think of as a solar power. And yet a combination of canny regulation and widespread public support for renewables have made Germany an unlikely leader in the global green-power movement—and created a groundswell of small-scale power generation that could upend the dominance of traditional power companies.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    The opening statement is a mouth full!

    So let's assume supply cost, is the cost of goods sold, The Tax to reflect the perceived environmental damage (X),
    and then whatever consumer tax the government imposes.
    The middle tax is VERY subjective!
    It's largely smoke-scream for a long-standing issue in environmental economics; how does one determine what damage to the environment will occur, what its 'well-being' cost is, and what the appropriate discount rate should be. One one extreme you have had Stern's damage and "cost" (up to 103 dollars a ton for carbon) and on the other you have had Nordhaus (8-19 dollars a ton).

    And such studies never calculate the actual subsidies provided to many governments through excessive fuel taxes (e.g. in Europe and the US) or earnings paid to their state owners for their government interests (e.g. Gulf States, Mexico, etc.), nor the implicit tax paid by car owners via government mandated fuel economy standards, etc. - i.e., it is government and government mandates that are often being subsidized, not the 'fossil fuels'.

    As this paper is nothing more than old disputed wine in a newer bottle, color me unimpressed.
    Last edited by maxparrish; 05-19-15 at 11:09 AM.

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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    With a long history of coal mining and heavy industry and the aforementioned winter gloom, Germany is not the country you’d naturally think of as a solar power. And yet a combination of canny regulation and widespread public support for renewables have made Germany an unlikely leader in the global green-power movement—and created a groundswell of small-scale power generation that could upend the dominance of traditional power companies.

    LMAO !!! Nonsense

    Their own Finance minister has publicly declared that their " Energy revolution " is a failure.

    They entered into this purely ideological and hare braind initiative of being the first Nation to being powered by renewable energy sources and now they're more dependant on Coal than they were before they shut down their nuke plants.

    So the German citizens pay 300 percent more for their electricity than the average American citizen and their air is dirtier because now they're forced to build Coal fired power plants to make up for the inherent power lapses that come with Solar and Wind power.

    Its unreal.

    Its ideology over common sense.
    " If no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else ? "
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