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Thread: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

  1. #11
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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    So you're basically saying that the entire concept of cost accounting is nonsense?
    Lol !!

    They literally pulled these numbers out of their asses and you bought into it completely

    I'm still laughing......You'll have to excuse me for a bit while I recover.
    " If no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else ? "
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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    I think he's really saying "I don't want to hear about this". There is a chance that cognitive dissonance is coming into play.
    No, I DO want to hear about this.

    Its nonsense and I beg people like you and him to continue to make fools out of yourselves publicly

    Ive always said best defense against Liberalism is to keep one of its supporters talking.
    " If no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else ? "
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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    No, I DO want to hear about this.

    Its nonsense and I beg people like you and him to continue to make fools out of yourselves publicly

    Ive always said best defense against Liberalism is to keep one of its supporters talking.
    Yes, well that certainly is a good way to understand the crazy ideas some conservatives advance, I agree. Let them make public statements that illustrate the irrational thought processes that drive public policy ideas.

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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Yes, well that certainly is a good way to understand the crazy ideas some conservatives advance, I agree. Let them make public statements that illustrate the irrational thought processes that drive public policy ideas.
    Hey, we're not the one's coming up with arbitrary #s for the explicit purpose of fooling a bunch of idiots.

    Have you read the article ? Who are they trying to convince ?

    Let me give you a hint. Its not Conservatives or anyone with healthy supply of common sense.
    " If no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else ? "
    Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hey, we're not the one's coming up with arbitrary #s for the explicit purpose of fooling a bunch of idiots.

    Have you read the article ? Who are they trying to convince ?

    Let me give you a hint. Its not Conservatives or anyone with healthy supply of common sense.
    Though I am currently registered Republican, the idea that conservatism and common sense go hand-in-hand is rather an illusion.

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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Green energy is too expensive.

    Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF | Environment | The Guardian

    Fossil fuel companies are benefiting from global subsidies of $5.3tn (£3.4tn) a year, equivalent to $10m a minute every day, according to a startling new estimate by the International Monetary Fund. The IMF calls the revelation “shocking” and says the figure is an “extremely robust” estimate of the true cost of fossil fuels. The $5.3tn subsidy estimated for 2015 is greater than the total health spending of all the world’s governments. The vast sum is largely due to polluters not paying the costs imposed on governments by the burning of coal, oil and gas. These include the harm caused to local populations by air pollution as well as to people across the globe affected by the floods, droughts and storms being driven by climate change. Nicholas Stern, an eminent climate economist at the London School of Economics, said: “This very important analysis shatters the myth that fossil fuels are cheap by showing just how huge their real costs are. There is no justification for these enormous subsidies for fossil fuels, which distort markets and damages economies, particularly in poorer countries.”

    Lord Stern said that even the IMF’s vast subsidy figure was a significant underestimate: “A more complete estimate of the costs due to climate change would show the implicit subsidies for fossil fuels are much bigger even than this report suggests.” The IMF, one of the world’s most respected financial institutions, said that ending subsidies for fossil fuels would cut global carbon emissions by 20%. That would be a giant step towards taming global warming, an issue on which the world has made little progress to date. Ending the subsidies would also slash the number of premature deaths from outdoor air pollution by 50% – about 1.6 million lives a year. Furthermore, the IMF said the resources freed by ending fossil fuel subsidies could be an economic “game-changer” for many countries, by driving economic growth and poverty reduction through greater investment in infrastructure, health and education and also by cutting taxes that restrict growth.
    Hey, these IMF'ers are missing to boat here. If they are going to do cost accounting based on subjective conclusions like harm, flooding, droughts, etc., they should really be going after man in general, since Mankind is responsible for it all. So forget these windmills the IMF is after, let's go after all mankind.

    Every man, woman, and child on the Planet Earth, needs to step up and pay a depletion tax, since their existence is being subsidized by the Earth. If fossil fuel alone is $5.3 trillion, let also add food, housing, medical care, etc..

    I'm guessing the harm to the Earth for growing food, and providing all that other stuff has got to be double, if not triple the fossil fuel subsidies. Figure $15tn.

    So at about $25tn, every man woman and child needs to pony up say $3.5 million/yr in depletion tax/subsidy refund to the Earth.

    What do you think?

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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Green energy is too expensive.

    Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF | Environment | The Guardian

    Fossil fuel companies are benefiting from global subsidies of $5.3tn (£3.4tn) a year, equivalent to $10m a minute every day, according to a startling new estimate by the International Monetary Fund. The IMF calls the revelation “shocking” and says the figure is an “extremely robust” estimate of the true cost of fossil fuels. The $5.3tn subsidy estimated for 2015 is greater than the total health spending of all the world’s governments. The vast sum is largely due to polluters not paying the costs imposed on governments by the burning of coal, oil and gas. These include the harm caused to local populations by air pollution as well as to people across the globe affected by the floods, droughts and storms being driven by climate change. Nicholas Stern, an eminent climate economist at the London School of Economics, said: “This very important analysis shatters the myth that fossil fuels are cheap by showing just how huge their real costs are. There is no justification for these enormous subsidies for fossil fuels, which distort markets and damages economies, particularly in poorer countries.”

    Lord Stern said that even the IMF’s vast subsidy figure was a significant underestimate: “A more complete estimate of the costs due to climate change would show the implicit subsidies for fossil fuels are much bigger even than this report suggests.” The IMF, one of the world’s most respected financial institutions, said that ending subsidies for fossil fuels would cut global carbon emissions by 20%. That would be a giant step towards taming global warming, an issue on which the world has made little progress to date. Ending the subsidies would also slash the number of premature deaths from outdoor air pollution by 50% – about 1.6 million lives a year. Furthermore, the IMF said the resources freed by ending fossil fuel subsidies could be an economic “game-changer” for many countries, by driving economic growth and poverty reduction through greater investment in infrastructure, health and education and also by cutting taxes that restrict growth.
    So let's see. Apparently there was no flooding or drought prior to the use of fossil fuels. They add the cost of premature deaths, but in 1900 the average life span was around 30 years and today it is around 80 years. Yep, glad we see so many premature deaths.

    And exactly where is the technology and products that will meet our needs to sustain our current technological level of civilization? Even at maximum use, what percentage of our current usage can be maintained by these methods? Where is the electric vehicle that would allow me to travel from one coast to the other with stops equal or less than the time needed to pump gasoline into my car? How much "environmental damage" does the metals and acids from batteries for electric vehicles cause? Or the production of the electricity needed? Or the Highways to run those vehicle over? How much more environmental damage is done by a gasoline vehicle when it wrecks vs the **** released from the battery from a Prius when an idiot runs out in front of a Semi?

    Finally, when exactly in the entire history of the planet has the climate not been in a state of change?
    Be sure to work hard and get lots of overtime. People on welfare want more steaks and free upgrades to smart phones with unlimited data packages.

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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Though I am currently registered Republican, the idea that conservatism and common sense go hand-in-hand is rather an illusion.
    Maybe you just dont understand what the articles trying to say.

    Well, then its written for you and people like you then

    Its why you posted irrelevant nonsense not related to the ridiculous OPs contention that " subsidies " equate to a value based on a completely subjective set of standards literally invented by the authors of the study.
    " If no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else ? "
    Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Maybe you just dont understand what the articles trying to say.

    Well, then its written for you and people like you then

    Its why you posted irrelevant nonsense not related to the ridiculous OPs contention that " subsidies " equate to a value based on a completely subjective set of standards literally invented by the authors of the study.
    Maybe we disagree on "what the article is trying to say", eh?

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    Re: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

    Also then you look at oil you have had the huge military, political and economical cost of being dependent of oil fron the extremly unstable middle east, that IMF didn't include in their report.
    This at the same time both wind and solar power is expanding rapidly and getting a lot cheaper.

    By comparison, electricity from new coal and gas-fired plants costs between 5 and 10 cents per kilowatt hour. And in Germany, right now, large solar plants deliver power for less than 9 cents, compared to as much as 11 cents from nuclear.

    By 2025, the report says, the cost of producing power in central and southern Europe will have declined to between 4 and 6 cents per kilowatt hour, and by 2050 to as low as 2 to 4 cents, making it the cheapest source of energy in many parts of the world.
    Solar Power To Become Cheapest Source Of Energy In Many Regions By 2025, German Experts Say

    New figures from the European Wind Energy Association (EWEA) on Tuesday reveal nearly 11.8GW of wind power was added to the grid across the European Union in 2014, accounting for 43.7% of all new electricity generation.

    Germany leads record wind power growth in Europe | Environment | The Guardian

    That thanks to some countries like Germany that did take the lead in the transition to renewable energy, ecomomic of scale and the initial science and product development cost was accomplished so that renewable energy could become competitive to other form of energy production.

    German Energy Transition
    Last edited by Bergslagstroll; 05-19-15 at 04:32 AM.

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