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Thread: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

  1. #61
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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Well, I would have to agree. The EU has been a major mistake. I applaud those countries who have resisted joining, and those who have voiced a desire to pull out. Countries, and the citizens in them, should be accountable for their own policies and agendas, otherwise they will never learn from their mistakes.

    Consider Greece. They haven't learned, and their current path is quickly leading to complete meltdown as a country. Yet, having learned nothing about fiscal policy, and the role of government, they are expecting others to bail them out. Total foolishness.
    Good morning, ocean515.

    : I'm not an economist, but since you mentioned Greece, it seems to me that giving money to them to pay back money they already owe doesn't make sense. That's like using my credit card to make a payment on my credit card!

    As far as data mining, that doesn't make sense to me either, but then most things going on today don't! Since our government seems to know that ISIS, for instance, is already in all 50 States in the US, couldn't they just concentrate on them and save a lot of time keeping track of everyone else? There's more to this, and it probably involves money as the bottom line, since they seem to be tightening the rules on what we may, or may not, do with our money. I've read that some banks are even asking customers why they want to withdraw some of their own money! I could understand that type of questioning if you were attempting to get a loan from them, but asking why you want to withdraw some of your own money is certainly weird, IMO. And if you say "none-ya," you probably end up on some government list! Sheesh!

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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good morning, ocean515.

    : I'm not an economist, but since you mentioned Greece, it seems to me that giving money to them to pay back money they already owe doesn't make sense. That's like using my credit card to make a payment on my credit card!

    As far as data mining, that doesn't make sense to me either, but then most things going on today don't! Since our government seems to know that ISIS, for instance, is already in all 50 States in the US, couldn't they just concentrate on them and save a lot of time keeping track of everyone else? There's more to this, and it probably involves money as the bottom line, since they seem to be tightening the rules on what we may, or may not, do with our money. I've read that some banks are even asking customers why they want to withdraw some of their own money! I could understand that type of questioning if you were attempting to get a loan from them, but asking why you want to withdraw some of your own money is certainly weird, IMO. And if you say "none-ya," you probably end up on some government list! Sheesh!
    I remain mostly on the fence on the data/surveillance issue. On one hand, privacy is a very important principle, on the other, our enemies are getting very sophisticated. For example, Oregon is about to start a test where drivers will pay a tax for every mile driven, and receive credits against fuel taxes paid at the pump. To track miles driven, the government will install GPS based tracking devices on their vehicle which will report the miles. Why would anyone want to give the government such specific personal information? Why would the government want it? Is it a good idea? Perhaps, electric vehicles pay almost nothing to help maintain the roads they drive on. But what happens when this Oregon experiment goes National? The government will be able to tell where you are, or a least your vehicle, every hour of the day.

    Like so many other things, government regulatory incrementalism is real. It's a death by 1000 cuts.
    President Donald J Trump, 45th President of the United States of America. A victory born in the hearts and minds of Everyday Americans

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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I remain mostly on the fence on the data/surveillance issue. On one hand, privacy is a very important principle, on the other, our enemies are getting very sophisticated. For example, Oregon is about to start a test where drivers will pay a tax for every mile driven, and receive credits against fuel taxes paid at the pump. To track miles driven, the government will install GPS based tracking devices on their vehicle which will report the miles. Why would anyone want to give the government such specific personal information? Why would the government want it? Is it a good idea? Perhaps, electric vehicles pay almost nothing to help maintain the roads they drive on. But what happens when this Oregon experiment goes National? The government will be able to tell where you are, or a least your vehicle, every hour of the day.

    Like so many other things, government regulatory incrementalism is real. It's a death by 1000 cuts.
    If you have a smart phone, even if you walk or ride a bike, they already know where you are. It was bound to happen with vehicles, too. I just never realized before now how utterly fascinating we all must be! : Little baby steps toward some goal never alarms anyone at the time....

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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    If you have a smart phone, even if you walk or ride a bike, they already know where you are. It was bound to happen with vehicles, too. I just never realized before now how utterly fascinating we all must be! : Little baby steps toward some goal never alarms anyone at the time....
    Exactly. I wonder if they have a "boring file" for people they have mined data from? So "they" mine data to see what people are up to. Everything seems so innocuous and simple at first. When I see something that includes "only doing what's fair" in a description, I start looking for the catch.

    Again, the "miles driven" tax comes to mind. At some point, I sense this will be how the government addresses higher mpg's in cars against the need to collect revenue to pay for roads, etc.. When does the "hey, that trip you took was a luxury" and a higher tax get levied?

    One thing I know about slippery slopes, they don't stay gradual for long.
    President Donald J Trump, 45th President of the United States of America. A victory born in the hearts and minds of Everyday Americans

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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Not only that, why would congress contradict the intent and purpose of the fourth amendment by legislating this into law. And still, why are there those that seem nonchalant toward it or worse, welcoming of it?
    Strictly speaking, any legislation that contradicts the USC is null and void, unconstitutional. No citizen has an obligation to obey such illegitimate legislation, and God Bless 'em, the librarians who refused to honor the NSL censorship requirements made that point.

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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Well, I would have to agree. The EU has been a major mistake. I applaud those countries who have resisted joining, and those who have voiced a desire to pull out. Countries, and the citizens in them, should be accountable for their own policies and agendas, otherwise they will never learn from their mistakes.

    Consider Greece. They haven't learned, and their current path is quickly leading to complete meltdown as a country. Yet, having learned nothing about fiscal policy, and the role of government, they are expecting others to bail them out. Total foolishness.
    It could work either way. I think they could do rather well as a united country so long as they actually unite. The economic power would be something to definitely contend with... but they'd have to unite and not do this... whatever they want to call it half step where they aren't united but are bound by rules outside of their countries that take away their ability to run themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    It could work either way. I think they could do rather well as a united country so long as they actually unite. The economic power would be something to definitely contend with... but they'd have to unite and not do this... whatever they want to call it half step where they aren't united but are bound by rules outside of their countries that take away their ability to run themselves.
    I believe there is enough evidence in the book of human history to demonstrate such cooperation among disparate peoples is a fools errand.

    There are too many cultural/historical/geographical/economic differences to expect unity could be reached. It doesn't appear that is how man has evolved, not matter what the hope is.
    President Donald J Trump, 45th President of the United States of America. A victory born in the hearts and minds of Everyday Americans

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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I believe there is enough evidence in the book of human history to demonstrate such cooperation among disparate peoples is a fools errand.

    There are too many cultural/historical/geographical/economic differences to expect unity could be reached. It doesn't appear that is how man has evolved, not matter what the hope is.
    Yes mankind is tribal more than not... But unity seems to have worked rather well in our country.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Yes mankind is tribal more than not... But unity seems to have worked rather well in our country.
    It's arguable that forces are trying to change that unity for political expediency in this country. It seems mankind has learned a group has a better chance at survival than to go it alone, but only to a point.
    President Donald J Trump, 45th President of the United States of America. A victory born in the hearts and minds of Everyday Americans

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