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Thread: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

  1. #41
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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    that is why I did say I hope the Germans have enough sense to throw out Merkel and anyone else who colluded with a forign government against them. The average American voter on the other has a short attention span when it comes to what our elected officials are doing.
    Hehe, you reckon the average German voter is any different? When there's bread on the table, a car in the garage, the average pay sufficient to make the mortgage affordable, who cares about this crap?

    They'll vote the mugshots that made all this comfort possible or at least didn't screw it up for them.

    More in common than that what divides.
    Last edited by Chagos; 05-18-15 at 10:14 PM.

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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Yes, to be legal you need more than just the say of government. As for the Fourth Amendment:



    it was written long before anyone even thought of electronic spying, but the intent is pretty clear it seems to me.
    Yes. I had reread the Amendment before writing. I am not at all as sure as you seem to be that that forbids most of what NSA has been doing. In particular it would not seem to forbid the collection and use of meta data and possibly not even of the content of email. It certainly does not apply to international data mining and content scanning.

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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    N.S.A. Collection of Bulk Call Data Is Ruled Illegal
    By CHARLIE SAVAGE and JONATHAN WEISMANMAY 7, 2015
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/08/us...ourt.html?_r=0

    There is no available satisfactory explanation for this. Cessation is the only appropriate response. What the NSA has been doing using that mostly rag legislation known as the Patriot Act as justification, is precisely the kind of trouble that the Church committee warned us about forty odd years ago.

    Tom Daschle, and Patrick Leahy, two men that raised concerns about the Patriot Act, both of which were balking at it, both of which could have prevented it from even coming to a vote, just coincidentally, and handily so for the Bush administration, (wink wink, nod nod) had their offices anthraxed!! Shortly afterward, they climbed aboard the Patriot Act train.
    Thank you for a very timely article. Probably i will have to look at the ruling, but it looks as if the court is asking the legislative to formalize what it wants better. That is always a good idea. What it does not seem to do is say that it is legally impossible to do data mining, if correctly structured.
    What is clear is that it is work in progress.

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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by Chagos View Post

    That's just the Atlantic and just two of the Five Eyes. Makes no difference really. A nationalist that can get aid to use against his/her own, will trade likewise.

    It's so much easier and far less messy than having to engage in such sordid little endeavors as sending a bunch of amateurs to invade a hotel complex in order to find out what strategy the opposition has.

    Get real.
    I doubt it. Nationalists care about their nation's sovereignty and therefore a nationalist in charge would not let a forign government agency spy on the people that nationalist represents. Globalists/internationalists on the other hand don't give two ****s about their country's sovereignty and will quickly sell their citizens down the river for a quick buck.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Not in the EU they're not. The problem with the Euro currency is that each country is bound by it as currency but has no control individually over it as their own currency. Therefore they all rise and fall together. Which has led to the economically dominant country in the Eurozone to wield way too much power over the other countries and dictate to them how to run their country via leaning on them fiscally. It's a really ugly situation they are all in.
    If they all rise and fall together, how can there be an economically dominant country? It seems to me the economics and politics of the other countries are to blame for their own struggles, as opposed to a country like Germany, who apparently doesn't suffer from the same economic mistakes.
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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Yes. I had reread the Amendment before writing. I am not at all as sure as you seem to be that that forbids most of what NSA has been doing. In particular it would not seem to forbid the collection and use of meta data and possibly not even of the content of email. It certainly does not apply to international data mining and content scanning.
    It doesn't apply to spying on foreign nations, but to spying on our own citizens. The Fourth mentions security in their "persons, houses, papers, and effects," which would have been a pretty comprehensive list back before the electronic age.
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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It doesn't apply to spying on foreign nations, but to spying on our own citizens. The Fourth mentions security in their "persons, houses, papers, and effects," which would have been a pretty comprehensive list back before the electronic age.
    Yes it would. But using the internet is like using a postcard or the streets. You send a pedophile picture, you get clobbered. You mug a guy and are on video, you get prosecuted. What you do in public is for all to see. So don't pee on the Memorial.

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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Yes it would. But using the internet is like using a postcard or the streets. You send a pedophile picture, you get clobbered. You mug a guy and are on video, you get prosecuted. What you do in public is for all to see. So don't pee on the Memorial.
    Yes, I suppose that's true. There isn't a lot of privacy on the web. But what about private emails? What about telephone calls? Isn't there some expectation of privacy there?
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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Yes, I suppose that's true. There isn't a lot of privacy on the web. But what about private emails? What about telephone calls? Isn't there some expectation of privacy there?
    You could argue "private" emails both ways I would assume. But the internet is never really private and we all know it. We could pretend it were, but that would be worse than admitting the truth, because some would act as though it was and shipwreck.

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    Re: Angela Merkel under pressure to reveal extent of German help for US spying

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Yes. I had reread the Amendment before writing. I am not at all as sure as you seem to be that that forbids most of what NSA has been doing. In particular it would not seem to forbid the collection and use of meta data and possibly not even of the content of email. It certainly does not apply to international data mining and content scanning.
    Regarding data from US citizens, what do you suppose that "no warrant shall issue but upon probable cause" mean to you?

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