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Thread: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

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    ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back


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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    The air campaign has been very timid.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    Yet another example of how terrible of an idea it was to go into Iraq in the first place back in 2003.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    The air campaign has been very timid.
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Yet another example of how terrible of an idea it was to go into Iraq in the first place back in 2003.
    In retrospect Saddam Hussein would have managed Iraq a million times better.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    In retrospect Saddam Hussein would have managed Iraq a million times better.
    Saddam Hussein was an unstable megalomaniac and a constant threat to the whole region.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    I think they do just enough to make it look like there is an effort put forth without destroying the organization. The "war of terror" is useful politically.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    Saddam Hussein was an unstable megalomaniac and a constant threat to the whole region.
    While true it is far less likely that ISIS, or someone like them, would organize under a ruler like Saddam. Again as we have discussed many times before, consider the aptitude of the people we are talking about here in adopting western governmental and social ideologies in concert with the various splinters of the same religion they all follow. I would argue well that the region is far more unstable today than it was then simply because of the small messes we have left all over the region from what we do best. Exchange one set of problematic governments for a new set of problematic governments. And do not discount that ISIS is a product of opportunity, not strength. If the Syrian government had been stronger and Saddam was still around, we would not be having this discussion. We would be talking about the impacts of brutal dictators in the region.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    While true it is far less likely that ISIS, or someone like them, would organize under a ruler like Saddam. Again as we have discussed many times before, consider the aptitude of the people we are talking about here in adopting western governmental and social ideologies in concert with the various splinters of the same religion they all follow. I would argue well that the region is far more unstable today than it was then simply because of the small messes we have left all over the region from what we do best. Exchange one set of problematic governments for a new set of problematic governments. And do not discount that ISIS is a product of opportunity, not strength. If the Syrian government had been stronger and Saddam was still around, we would not be having this discussion. We would be talking about the impacts of brutal dictators in the region.
    Jihadi terrorism long predates Saddam Hussein and developed independent of him. Saddam waged war on his neighbours and posed a continuing threat. In that he is very different from the Assad-regime in Syria. Assad and co are every bit as brutal as Saddam, but they are brutal domestically and cautious internationally.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    Jihadi terrorism long predates Saddam Hussein and developed independent of him. Saddam waged war on his neighbours and posed a continuing threat. In that he is very different from the Assad-regime in Syria. Assad and co are every bit as brutal as Saddam, but they are brutal domestically and cautious internationally.
    I'm not trying to say that Saddam was a good guy here, just pointing out the picture of Iraq then and now. Looking back it stands to reason that invading Iraq was not such a bright idea, the lasting effects will be something the next several Presidents will have to deal with. We are already up to 4 Presidents in a row to drop a bomb on Iraq for one reason or another, and as of late Iraq is in far worse shape today.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    I'm not trying to say that Saddam was a good guy here, just pointing out the picture of Iraq then and now. Looking back it stands to reason that invading Iraq was not such a bright idea, the lasting effects will be something the next several Presidents will have to deal with. We are already up to 4 Presidents in a row to drop a bomb on Iraq for one reason or another, and as of late Iraq is in far worse shape today.
    The alternative to removing Saddam Hussein was a couple of decades more of occasional bombing of Iraq and a continuing threat to the region. It would have been better if he could have been removed by an internal uprising and/or coup but this was tried and failed.

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