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Thread: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Oh yes! It was all great in Iraq when we were there! It was stable! Not corrupt! Not under constant attacks from terrorist groups! It was great!
    During the US occupation Iraq was the world's major killing ground for destroying jihadi terrorists. I think it was better to fight and kill them there than in Europe or North America. But you might disagree of course.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The intelligence communities consensus 2006 NIE concluded that the invasion and occupation of Iraq caused an increase in global terrorism, and made America less safe. I doubt that by pointing that out that they were declaring that Saddam Hussein was a good guy.
    Well, first, no that isn;t what the document says. It says that Iraq had become the cause of some Jihadists, but they never said that the AQI constituted a direct threat to the US. But then it is also old news since the surge pushed AQI out of Iraq. It was our withdraw from Iraq that opened the door for their return, bolstered by our secret weapon supplies to Syrian rebels.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    During the US occupation Iraq was the world's major killing ground for destroying jihadi terrorists. I think it was better to fight and kill them there than in Europe or North America. But you might disagree of course.
    It was the invasion and occupation that created that. Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad all did great at containment of extremists.

    Published: September 24, 2006
    WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by American intelligence agencies has found that the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/wo...pagewanted=all
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Well, first, no that isn;t what the document says. It says that Iraq had become the cause of some Jihadists, but they never said that the AQI constituted a direct threat to the US. But then it is also old news since the surge pushed AQI out of Iraq. It was our withdraw from Iraq that opened the door for their return, bolstered by our secret weapon supplies to Syrian rebels.
    It said that the invasion and occupation of Iraq caused an increase in global terrorism, and made America less safe. There were no Islamic extremists operational in Iraq until the US showed up.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It said that the invasion and occupation of Iraq caused an increase in global terrorism, and made America less safe. There were no Islamic extremists operational in Iraq until the US showed up.
    And it also said that defeating AQI is the path to reducing recruitment of Jihad because it was the perception of success that created recruitment opportunities. The AQI that joined as the result of the short term success of AQI in the time of that assessment were killed or run off by the surge. As of 2009 AQI was a shell of its former self.

    ISIS recruitment has indeed been driven by perceived success since Obama took office. Obama's idiotic policies 1) Helped ISIS align to a new cause in Syria and 2) opened the door for them to waltz in to Iraq and takeover vast swaths of the country with ease.

    Again, to properly assess what policies created ISIS you have to look at the state of AQI when Obama took office. Al Qaeda in Iraq was not even in Iraq anymore. It was done.

    The idiocy in Libya, terrible policy in Syria and an even worse decision in Iraq breathed life back into Al Qaeda under Obama's watch and gave them new purpose. They were so empowered by Obama's weakness that they changed their goal from driving the US out of Iraq to conquering the entire Middle East.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    And it also said that defeating AQI is the path to reducing recruitment of Jihad because it was the perception of success that created recruitment opportunities. The AQI that joined as the result of the short term success of AQI in the time of that assessment were killed or run off by the surge. As of 2009 AQI was a shell of its former self.

    ISIS recruitment has indeed been driven by perceived success since Obama took office. Obama's idiotic policies 1) Helped ISIS align to a new cause in Syria and 2) opened the door for them to waltz in to Iraq and takeover vast swaths of the country with ease.

    Again, to properly assess what policies created ISIS you have to look at the state of AQI when Obama took office. Al Qaeda in Iraq was not even in Iraq anymore. It was done.

    The idiocy in Libya, terrible policy in Syria and an even worse decision in Iraq breathed life back into Al Qaeda under Obama's watch and gave them new purpose. They were so empowered by Obama's weakness that they changed their goal from driving the US out of Iraq to conquering the entire Middle East.
    You'll get no argument from me that Obama's ME policies have taken what Bush screwed up and made it multiples worse. I've pointed this out endlessly. A dozen years of failed policy in the ME has the region in pitiful condition.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    Oh, well then there's no reason for us to be involved. The U.S. is a strong supporter of self-determination.
    They have some support in Anbar but they don't in other regions. If ISIS are allowed to to gain control of Anbar it could get out of control fast.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    They have some support in Anbar but they don't in other regions. If ISIS are allowed to to gain control of Anbar it could get out of control fast.
    Do you expect that the British are going to be going back to Iraq to see to that?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Do you expect that the British are going to be going back to Iraq to see to that?
    No unfourtuntly not, people in the West have yet to work out how dangerous ISIS are and how dangerous they could yet become.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    You'll get no argument from me that Obama's ME policies have taken what Bush screwed up and made it multiples worse. I've pointed this out endlessly. A dozen years of failed policy in the ME has the region in pitiful condition.
    The problem is that the 2006 NIE proposed a problem that was solved by 2009. As such it is hard to blame Bush for the state of Iraq today. If the best argument against Bush is that Iraq would be better today with Saddam then the case is weak. You would only be replacing a brutal insurgency with institutionalized tyranical brutality. ISIS is a bunch of pikers compared to Saddam.

    The only reason why ISIS is successful is because we don't commit to eradicating them.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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