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Thread: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    In retrospect Saddam Hussein would have managed Iraq a million times better.
    Unfortunately, that's true. We wouldn't see Iraq as the hotbed of terrorist activity that it currently is and its people wouldn't be subjected to both Western and Terrorist attack.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    Saddam Hussein was an unstable megalomaniac and a constant threat to the whole region.
    ....and still would have done a better job. That's how badly we cocked this thing up since the start. This is why when you go to war you need......a plan.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #33
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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Then my follow up question has to be what would be your policy suggestion for all of Iraq? Because at this point, regardless of Kurdish Independence, all that is left is to either watch the implosion eventually complete where the current Iraqi government completely fails, or agree to the "South Korea" model of permanent military occupation.
    I think a residual force like the one left in South Korea in 1953, but on a somewhat smaller scale, would have prevented most of the chaos unfolding in Iraq now. The U.S. military has to be stationed somewhere, after all, and part of our forces should be positioned abroad in areas where their presence is a stabilizing force. The yammering about how Mr. Obama's hands were tied by a status-of-forces agreement is an unconvincing attempt by his acolytes to excuse his weakness. Any president who had been determined to maintain a residual U.S. force in Iraq would not have let a piece of paper stand in his way. President Limpwrist didn't want any such force, so instead of insisting on changing the existing agreement, he used it as an excuse to withdraw completely. We are seeing the results.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    We did not stay in Iraq because the Iraqi government no longer wanted us there. The only way they would allow us to stay would be if we would have subjected our soldiers to their courts, which is entirely unacceptable. The idiotic thing to do was to have gone in there in the first place. Had we continued the policy of containment with Iraq, we would not be dealing with this today.
    This is a false narrative from the Obama White House that was exposed long ago by Gates himself as well as the NYT and other sources.

    "The White House insisted that the collapse of the talks was not a setback. “As we reviewed the 10,000 option, we came to the conclusion that achieving the goal of a security partnership was not dependent on the size of our footprint in-country, and that stability in Iraq did not depend on the presence of U.S. forces,” a senior Obama administration official said."

    Yeah, wrong.

    Maliki and Gates wanted 16,000 troops in Iraq, Obama kept adjusting the troop numbers downward until the number was too small to do any good.

    Obama promissed he would pull troops out of Iraq and he made sure to scuttle the negotiations to achieve that goal.
    Last edited by jmotivator; 05-18-15 at 01:15 PM.
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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    While true it is far less likely that ISIS, or someone like them, would organize under a ruler like Saddam. Again as we have discussed many times before, consider the aptitude of the people we are talking about here in adopting western governmental and social ideologies in concert with the various splinters of the same religion they all follow. I would argue well that the region is far more unstable today than it was then simply because of the small messes we have left all over the region from what we do best. Exchange one set of problematic governments for a new set of problematic governments. And do not discount that ISIS is a product of opportunity, not strength. If the Syrian government had been stronger and Saddam was still around, we would not be having this discussion. We would be talking about the impacts of brutal dictators in the region.
    They organized under us.
    "We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the ******* irony in that." - Justin Halpern

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    ....and still would have done a better job. That's how badly we cocked this thing up since the start. This is why when you go to war you need......a plan.
    With objectives.
    "We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the ******* irony in that." - Justin Halpern

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    The air campaign has been very timid.
    You can thank President Airhead for that.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    Another Obama FAIL!

    If we had 100K troops on the ground right now, ISIS would be obliterated from Iraq in a year....maybe less.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    Another Obama FAIL!

    If we had 100K troops on the ground right now, ISIS would be obliterated from Iraq in a year....maybe less.
    If we had a 100k of troops in Iraq right now, we would be spending 100 billion a month on that ****hole.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    This is a false narrative from the Obama White House that was exposed long ago by Gates himself as well as the NYT and other sources.

    "The White House insisted that the collapse of the talks was not a setback. “As we reviewed the 10,000 option, we came to the conclusion that achieving the goal of a security partnership was not dependent on the size of our footprint in-country, and that stability in Iraq did not depend on the presence of U.S. forces,” a senior Obama administration official said."

    Yeah, wrong.

    Maliki and Gates wanted 16,000 troops in Iraq, Obama kept adjusting the troop numbers downward until the number was too small to do any good.

    Obama promissed he would pull troops out of Iraq and he made sure to scuttle the negotiations to achieve that goal.
    That is flat out revisionism.

    What killed the deal

    The agreement failed over a demand that American troops be given immunity from prosecution by Iraqis, a very touchy political issue within the Iraqi Parliament. Some experts said Iraqi leaders may not have been willing to take great political risk with their citizens in exchange for a relatively small American force.

    But no immunity meant no sizable residual troop presence.

    "When the Americans asked for immunity, the Iraqi side answered that it was not possible," al-Maliki said in an October 2011 news conference. "The discussions over the number of trainers and the place of training stopped. Now that the issue of immunity was decided and that no immunity to be given, the withdrawal has started."
    http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...bcs-raddatz-c/

    All the reporting at the time was that the Iraqi government no longer wanted us there:

    Iraq’s Government, Not Obama, Called Time on the U.S. Troop Presence | TIME.com
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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