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Thread: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    Jihadi terrorism long predates Saddam Hussein and developed independent of him. Saddam waged war on his neighbours and posed a continuing threat. In that he is very different from the Assad-regime in Syria. Assad and co are every bit as brutal as Saddam, but they are brutal domestically and cautious internationally.
    Seeing as how our inept federal government wants to overthrow both governments. I would say that it doesn't matter what type of government you are, if you're stable in the middle east chances are our government wants to topple you. Except Israel.
    Trump Attacked A Syrian Airfield. Trump will be a one-term president.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Iran is on the roster.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Yet another example of how terrible of an idea it was to go into Iraq in the first place back in 2003.
    Yeah, if only we had known that the next President would be such a horrible CIC.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    While true it is far less likely that ISIS, or someone like them, would organize under a ruler like Saddam. Again as we have discussed many times before, consider the aptitude of the people we are talking about here in adopting western governmental and social ideologies in concert with the various splinters of the same religion they all follow. I would argue well that the region is far more unstable today than it was then simply because of the small messes we have left all over the region from what we do best. Exchange one set of problematic governments for a new set of problematic governments. And do not discount that ISIS is a product of opportunity, not strength. If the Syrian government had been stronger and Saddam was still around, we would not be having this discussion. We would be talking about the impacts of brutal dictators in the region.
    As bad as ISIS currently is, they have yet to reach the brutality of Saddam Hussein.

    Wishing that Saddam was still in power to keep ISIS at bay is like wishing that you hadn't killed the man eating lion that was scaring off the man eating hyenas.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Yeah, if only we had known that the next President would be such a horrible CIC.
    As ISIS is nothing but the new name for Al Qaeda in Iraq, a terrorist organization that started in Iraq after our invasion, it would not even exist today had we never went in.

    Islamic State (ISIS) - Council on Foreign Relations

    Moreover, the fact that the military of Iraq cannot defeat it, despite their outnumbering ISIS forces by over 10 to 1, is evidence of the shear incompetence of the country's government. Of course, I suppose had we continued to stay there, despite the fact the people of Iraq and its government wanted us out, at a cost of about 100 billion of month indefinitely, we could have possibly held the country together.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Unless their is an invervention from outside powers I predict that the Anbar province will be in ISIS hands by the end of the year. They have a foothold in the region and they enjoy a lot of support from the local population.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    As ISIS is nothing but the new name for Al Qaeda in Iraq, a terrorist organization that started in Iraq after our invasion, it would not even exist today had we never went in.

    Islamic State (ISIS) - Council on Foreign Relations

    Moreover, the fact that the military of Iraq cannot defeat it, despite their outnumbering ISIS forces by over 10 to 1, is evidence of the shear incompetence of the country's government. Of course, I suppose had we continued to stay there, despite the fact the people of Iraq and its government wanted us out, at a cost of about 100 billion of month indefinitely, we could have possibly held the country together.
    It's a phony argument. The group dates back to 1999. The reason that AQ in Iraq is now called ISIS is because AQ in Iraq had its ass handed to it by the US troops in Iraq.

    The fact is that this group, no matter what you call it, was in shambles when it retreated to Syria. It later would joined the resistance movement supported by the Obama administration. It gained power there and then came back to Iraq once Obama idiotically pulled all US troops out of Iraq.

    You want to know how responsible Bush is for ISIS? Look at the condition of ISIS (AQ in Iraq) in January 2009. The ISIS we see today was constituted on Obama's watch, filling all the power gaps that Obama created in the region.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    It's a phony argument. The group dates back to 1999. The reason that AQ in Iraq is now called ISIS is because AQ in Iraq had its ass handed to it by the US troops in Iraq.

    The fact is that this group, no matter what you call it, was in shambles when it retreated to Syria. It later would joined the resistance movement supported by the Obama administration. It gained power there and then came back to Iraq once Obama idiotically pulled all US troops out of Iraq.

    You want to know how responsible Bush is for ISIS? Look at the condition of ISIS (AQ in Iraq) in January 2009. The ISIS we see today was constituted on Obama's watch, filling all the power gaps that Obama created in the region.
    We did not stay in Iraq because the Iraqi government no longer wanted us there. The only way they would allow us to stay would be if we would have subjected our soldiers to their courts, which is entirely unacceptable. The idiotic thing to do was to have gone in there in the first place. Had we continued the policy of containment with Iraq, we would not be dealing with this today.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The intelligence communities consensus 2006 NIE concluded that the invasion and occupation of Iraq caused an increase in global terrorism, and made America less safe. I doubt that by pointing that out that they were declaring that Saddam Hussein was a good guy.
    For those who are interested, the declassified portion of the NIE can be found at: http://www.dni.gov/files/documents/S...0Judgments.pdf

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    As bad as ISIS currently is, they have yet to reach the brutality of Saddam Hussein.

    Wishing that Saddam was still in power to keep ISIS at bay is like wishing that you hadn't killed the man eating lion that was scaring off the man eating hyenas.
    Close, I'm only evaluating the history for what we know. To be honest we have to include all of the history of the region.

    And as horrible as this is going to sound that region of the world has more aptitude for brutal dictators to keep ideological factions from taking pocket control *than* operating a government with western style ideologies expecting those ideological factions to go along with notions like freedom, tolerance, and self determination.

    My issue is simply too many in the region subscribe to a splinter of the same religion that suggests based on text in their most holy of book to be socially controlled by "religious authority" to the highest degree. And that is why dictators control the region overall. History confirmed.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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