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Thread: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

  1. #101
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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    How progressive!

    Live in the past, blame the leaders of the past, keep blaming them.

    That will fix the problems of today.

    How about once the loony left actualyl came up with a solution? It is clear the first black president hasn't got the first ****ing clue what do, he has surredered territory after territory to terrorists, the cancer is matastizing and all Obama and his pathetic lemmings can do is blame Bush.

    That sure brings in out of the box thinking.
    No, just saying that the people that created this mess in the first place are not the ones we ought to be listening to now. The warmongering right back in 2003 are the ones that insisted upon throwing a grenade in an outhouse so they should not be bitching about **** being everywhere now because of it.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Nope.

    But are you going to answer my questions? Here I'll ask again: So in your worldview it was an either or? It was either we open the door for these jihadis in Iraq and kill them there, or they were going to flood the streets of Western Europe or North America? This is your justification?
    I'm pretty sure it's simply defend Bush at all cost.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #103
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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    They were able to do so only because BO and his Team dropped the SOFA. Once Intel was rolled back and pulled in.....there was no one that knew of any AQ in major numbers in Iraq. Although, it was known AQ was moving back in.

    So it really has no tie to Bush jr.
    No - Iraq was not signing a SOFA. Maliki wanted no US Troops in Iraq. And I am sure that was reinforced by his patrons, Iran.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

  4. #104
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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Well, it's the pottery barn rule that Powell spoke of. Bottom line is that the Middle East would be vastly better off today, could we erase the past 12 years of USFP in the region.
    Screw that rule. Go in, complete the mission and get out.
    What should have happened in AStan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

  5. #105
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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    The Democrats voted for war in Iraq and then spent years attacking the president for going to war in Iraq. Bush never actually made the claim of an imminent mushroom cloud sent by Saddam, that is a misrepresentation by Ted Kennedy.

    Likewise, Bush only ever claimed that there had been communications between Al Qaeda and Iraq, which the commission agreed took place. What Kerry argued was that Bush stated that there was a collaboration between Al Qaeda and Iraq, which Bush never claimed.

    But sure, the Democrats had run a 5 year negative campaign against Bush and against the efforts of our Military in Iraq and it was indeed the tipping point for the election of Obama. But then in the same way the Democrats want to demonize Bush for going into Iraq, the same shallow interpretation would lead to the conclusion that Obama lied to the American people about consequences of leaving Iraq. It is becoming clear that the NIA had long warned the White House that a resurgent AQI would be the outcome of leaving Iraq, yet Obama stood before the American people and claimed the war was won, Iraq was peaceful and it was time to come home. Either he was lying or suffering from self imposed ignorance of the realities that were made available to him in his security briefings.

    Bush can't be faulted for what Obama made of Iraq.... and Syria... and Yemen... and Libya.


    Morell of the CIA just came out with his Book and has been doing interviews. Here is a bit what he had to say about Iraq and Bush Jr, on the Hugh Hewitt Show. Good stuff and straight from one of the Main players then and today.



    MM: Yeah, I think itís a totally unfair question, right, for somebody to say knowing what we know now, would you do something. That makes no sense, right? You never know what you know how when youíre making a decision. You only know what you knew then. So I think itís a much more reasonable question to say if you knew then what President Bush knew, what you would do, and then it gets really tough, right? Because again, itís all about the context, Hugh, and the context was, again, 3,000 people had just been killed, the CIA telling you that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction, including restarting a nuclear weapons program that he had once and had stopped, the CIA telling you that he supports Palestinian terrorist groups, and not al Qaeda, but Palestinian terrorist groups, and the President sitting there thinking you know, I canít afford to take the risk of this guy use those weapons of mass destruction against me directly, or I canít take the risk of him giving those weapons to a terrorist group. So when you put the context around anything, right, you look at it in a different light. So I think people have been completely unfair to Governor Bush here. The question is not given what you know now. The question really is given what you know then, thatís the question I think he thought he was answering. And given all the members of Congress at the time who voted to go to war in Iraq and given what the President thought, I think the Governor is on solid footing.

    HH: A couple of pages later, you write that the CIAís judgment about Saddam and WMD was nothing new, nor was it unique. The perception that the Bush administration pushed the intelligence community toward believing that Saddam had WMD is just wrong. No one pushed us. We were already there. The notion that we were telling the White House wanted to hear can easily be debunked. Look at the question of Saddamís connections to al Qaeda. We held our ground, the Agency held its ground, and refused to go where the intelligence did not take us. On WMD, if weíd believed it was likely Saddam had none, it would have been an act of madness to take the position we did. Following an invasion, a stockpile would either turn up or not. To go to war knowing youíre going to be proving wrong would be insane. Thatís the kind of airtight analysis that has been missing from a lot of this hyper-politicized debate.

    MM: So for years, for years, thereís been the view out there, Hugh, that CIA, the U.S. intelligence community, was pushed into this judgment by the Bush White House or hardliners in the Bush administration. Itís complete nonsense, as I walk through in the book. You know, Iíll tell you, the only thing you really need to know is that the CIA believed this about Iraqís weapons of mass destruction before George Bush ever came to office. We were telling the same story to President Clinton......snip~

    Former CIA Deputy Director Mike Morell on "The Great War Of Our Time" ę The Hugh Hewitt Show

  6. #106
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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    No, just saying that the people that created this mess in the first place are not the ones we ought to be listening to now. The warmongering right back in 2003 are the ones that insisted upon throwing a grenade in an outhouse so they should not be bitching about **** being everywhere now because of it.
    In terms of the results, is there really much difference between this war mongering right, and the left as represented by Obama in its embracing the Arab Spring?

    Both were equally naive about Arab culture. One thought they could turn them into us. The other thought they would just become us as if by magic.

    In either case, they remained who they are -- a people that routinely marries close family members, values blood over ideology, and clings resolutely to social mores rooted in the distant past.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    No - Iraq was not signing a SOFA. Maliki wanted no US Troops in Iraq. And I am sure that was reinforced by his patrons, Iran.
    Maliki couldn't get the Approval for the SOFA. But as for troops in Iraq. He changed his mind in 2013. Although he had been talking with BO's US Ambassador in 2012. Then he would address the US Institute of Peace for Support and Aid. Then later that year go and meet BO at the White House. Requesting more Aid....all to deal with AQ and Terrorists. Even informing us they would break thru to Syria.



    Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki Urges Greater U.S. Support.....


    Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, in an October 31 address at the U.S. Institute of Peace (USIP) in Washington, called for more support from the United States in countering an ongoing wave of terrorism in Iraq that has been attributed primarily to al-Qaida-backed extremists, as well as for American patience as Iraq tries to build its young democracy amid the country’s deep internal political disputes.

    Maliki described Iraq’s terrorism challenge as “huge and increasing—and we should face it.” The prime minister, making his first visit to Washington since the withdrawal of U.S. military forces from Iraq was completed in December 2011, said he came to Washington “to consolidate the SFA [the bilateral Strategic Framework Agreement] at all levels,” including cooperation on security, trade and investment, reconstruction and education. He will speak with President Obama on Nov. 1 and has already met with Vice President Biden, Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel and congressional leaders.

    The centerpiece of his USIP speech was an appeal for more U.S. support in defeating al-Qaida militants in Iraq. Iraq is seeking additional U.S. weaponry, including Apache attack helicopters and drones, though Maliki’s remarks focused on counterterrorism and intelligence cooperation. “Iraq needs its friends, to benefit from their experience and training,” he said......snip~

    Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki Urges Greater U.S. Support | United States Institute of Peace

  8. #108
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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Maliki couldn't get the Approval for the SOFA. But as for troops in Iraq. He changed his mind in 2013. Although he had been talking with BO's US Ambassador in 2012. Then he would address the US Institute of Peace for Support and Aid. Then later that year go and meet BO at the White House. Requesting more Aid....all to deal with AQ and Terrorists. Even informing us they would break thru to Syria.




    Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki Urges Greater U.S. Support.....


    Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, in an October 31 address at the U.S. Institute of Peace (USIP) in Washington, called for more support from the United States in countering an ongoing wave of terrorism in Iraq that has been attributed primarily to al-Qaida-backed extremists, as well as for American patience as Iraq tries to build its young democracy amid the country’s deep internal political disputes.

    Maliki described Iraq’s terrorism challenge as “huge and increasing—and we should face it.” The prime minister, making his first visit to Washington since the withdrawal of U.S. military forces from Iraq was completed in December 2011, said he came to Washington “to consolidate the SFA [the bilateral Strategic Framework Agreement] at all levels,” including cooperation on security, trade and investment, reconstruction and education. He will speak with President Obama on Nov. 1 and has already met with Vice President Biden, Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel and congressional leaders.

    The centerpiece of his USIP speech was an appeal for more U.S. support in defeating al-Qaida militants in Iraq. Iraq is seeking additional U.S. weaponry, including Apache attack helicopters and drones, though Maliki’s remarks focused on counterterrorism and intelligence cooperation. “Iraq needs its friends, to benefit from their experience and training,” he said......snip~

    Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki Urges Greater U.S. Support | United States Institute of Peace
    Those problems were created by Maliki. Now we have a situation where the Militias are the ones running the show, with Iran as their backstop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

  9. #109
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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Yet another example of how terrible of an idea it was to go into Iraq in the first place back in 2003.
    Yet another example of how terrible of an idea it was to pull out all American forces.

  10. #110
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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Those problems were created by Maliki. Now we have a situation where the Militias are the ones running the show, with Iran as their backstop.
    How does that change up with him visiting Team BO twice for aid, and getting denied? All in 2013. What do you see if BO decides to work things out rather than walk away? Meaning AQIL's difficulty then.

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