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Thread: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    So you prefer large-scale government organized mass murder on a very large scale. That is your prerogative.
    Nope, its not what a "prefer" or my "prerogative", its comparison between two events and the long term consequences of each event.
    Just a democratic-socialist in the heartland of America.CHECK OUT MY TUMBLR(BLOG)HERE "Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    So in your worldview it was an either or? It was either we open the door for these jihadis in Iraq and kill them there, or they were going to flood the streets of Western Europe or North America? This is your justification?
    Are you one of these people who believe jihadi terrorism suddenly sprang up in 2003?

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Nope, its not what a "prefer" or my "prerogative", its comparison between two events and the long term consequences of each event.
    Yes, you prefer the gassing of civilians, organized murdering campaigns, etc.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    And the start of the disintegration of Iraq.
    Well, it's the pottery barn rule that Powell spoke of. Bottom line is that the Middle East would be vastly better off today, could we erase the past 12 years of USFP in the region.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    And it also said that defeating AQI is the path to reducing recruitment of Jihad because it was the perception of success that created recruitment opportunities. The AQI that joined as the result of the short term success of AQI in the time of that assessment were killed or run off by the surge. As of 2009 AQI was a shell of its former self.

    ISIS recruitment has indeed been driven by perceived success since Obama took office. Obama's idiotic policies 1) Helped ISIS align to a new cause in Syria and 2) opened the door for them to waltz in to Iraq and takeover vast swaths of the country with ease.

    Again, to properly assess what policies created ISIS you have to look at the state of AQI when Obama took office. Al Qaeda in Iraq was not even in Iraq anymore. It was done.

    The idiocy in Libya, terrible policy in Syria and an even worse decision in Iraq breathed life back into Al Qaeda under Obama's watch and gave them new purpose. They were so empowered by Obama's weakness that they changed their goal from driving the US out of Iraq to conquering the entire Middle East.


    Mornin JM. Exactly, what policies and better yet, who's......as Judicial Watch discovered.



    Another 2012 DIA memo predicts the rise of ISIS and the establishment of a caliphate 17 months before President Barack Obama called ISIS “jay-vee.”

    A third DIA memo, dated Oct. 5, 2012, leaves no doubt that U.S. intelligence agencies knew that weapons were moving from Libya to Syria before the attack that killed four Americans. .....snip~

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    IMO, the Iraqi government isn't exactly doing things to win the support of the broader population, and this is also feeding ISIS e.g., facilitating its ability to recruit. From Reuters following ISIS's capture of Ramadi:

    Sami Abed Saheb, 37, a Ramadi restaurant owner, said Islamic State found 30 women and 71 men in the detention center. They had been shot in the feet to prevent them escaping when their captors fled.

    Islamic State tightens grip on captured Iraqi city | Reuters

    In this case, the "captors" refers to the Iraqi forces that were driven from Ramadi. Hopefully, ISIS will be driven out of Ramadi in the not too distant future, but the Iraqi government needs to clean up its act if it is to demonstrate to the population at large that it is worthy of their support. Absent broad based support for the Iraqi government, the already limited U.S. effort will continue to face significant additional challenges.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    We did not stay in Iraq because the Iraqi government no longer wanted us there. The only way they would allow us to stay would be if we would have subjected our soldiers to their courts, which is entirely unacceptable. The idiotic thing to do was to have gone in there in the first place. Had we continued the policy of containment with Iraq, we would not be dealing with this today.
    You are dutifully reciting the fable President Pinprick's acolytes have cooked up, in an unconvincing effort to cover his rear. It is witless nonsense designed to gull the gullible. As if a country the U.S. had invaded, overrun, and still had a couple hundred thousand troops in, could dictate anything to a determined U.S. president. To hell with their G--damned courts. The U.S. could have--and should have--told any new government there when to jump, and how high. Imagine FDR, or Truman, or Eisenhower, or Reagan wringing his hands like an old woman and pleading that he was helpless to do anything more. Nothing more was done because this weak sister of a president did not want it done. Mr. Obama resents this country and does not wish it well.

    Hussein was an Arab Hitler who had murdered several hundred thousand Iraqis, kept young children chained in filthy prisons, had invaded Kuwait, had reneged on the agreements he had made to save his skin after being routed in the 1991 war that drove him out, and who had continually been firing on U.S. and British aircraft in many hundreds of incidents during the dozen years since. He was known to have manufactured large amounts of chemical weapons and had the feedstocks and machinery needed to make biological weapons, particularly anthrax. By late 2002 it had been four years since he had allowed open international inspections of these things, and he continued to balk at them. A series of attacks using anthrax-contaminated mail, soon after 9/11, had killed several Americans and forced congressional offices to be temporarily shut down, and no one knew who was behind them. To top all this off, Hussein was paying suicide bombers to murder Israeli civilians, and he was training and financing thousands of terrorists from groups around the world.

    And yet despite all this, and even after 9/11, you would just have "contained" this regime, and hoped for the best. God help us all if the safety of the 300-plus million people in this country is ever entrusted to a president who shares your views. And maybe it already is.
    Last edited by matchlight; 05-19-15 at 11:16 AM.

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    Yes, you prefer the gassing of civilians, organized murdering campaigns, etc.
    Nope, I do not.
    Just a democratic-socialist in the heartland of America.CHECK OUT MY TUMBLR(BLOG)HERE "Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    Are you one of these people who believe jihadi terrorism suddenly sprang up in 2003?
    Nope.

    But are you going to answer my questions? Here I'll ask again: So in your worldview it was an either or? It was either we open the door for these jihadis in Iraq and kill them there, or they were going to flood the streets of Western Europe or North America? This is your justification?
    Just a democratic-socialist in the heartland of America.CHECK OUT MY TUMBLR(BLOG)HERE "Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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    Re: ISIS seizes key Iraqi city of Ramadi as government forces pull back

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    You are dutifully reciting the fable President Pinprick's acolytes have cooked up, in an unconvincing effort to cover his rear. It is witless nonsense designed to gull the gullible. As if a country the U.S. had invaded, overrun, and still had a couple hundred thousand troops in, could dictate anything to a determined U.S. president. To hell with their G--damned courts. The U.S. could have--and should have--told any new government there when to jump, and how high. Imagine FDR, or Truman, or Eisenhower, or Reagan wringing his hands like an old woman and pleading that he was helpless to do anything more. Nothing more was done because this weak sister of a president did not want it done. Mr. Obama resents this country and does not wish it well.

    Hussein was an Arab Hitler who had murdered several hundred thousand Iraqis, kept young children chained in filthy prisons, had invaded Kuwait, had reneged on the agreements he had made to save his skin after being routed in the 1991 war that drove him out, and who had continually been firing on U.S. and British aircraft in many hundreds of incidents during the dozen years since. He was known to have manufactured large amounts of chemical weapons and had the feedstocks and machinery needed to make biological weapons, particularly anthrax. By late 2002 it had been four years since he had allowed open international inspections of these things, and he continued to balk at them. A series of attacks using anthrax-contaminated mail, soon after 9/11, had killed several Americans and forced congressional offices to be temporarily shut down, and no one knew who was behind them. To top all this off, Hussein was paying suicide bombers to murder Israeli civilians, and he was training and financing thousands of terrorists from groups around the world.

    And yet despite all this, and even after 9/11, you would just have "contained" this regime, and hoped for the best. God help us all if the safety of the 300-plus million people in this country is ever entrusted to a president who shares your views. And maybe it already is.
    Besides the fact that Americans sent Obama to Washington in 2008 to bring our troops home from Iraq,

    Iraq’s Government, Not Obama, Called Time on the U.S. Troop Presence
    Iraq’s Government, Not Obama, Called Time on the U.S. Troop Presence | TIME.com
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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