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Letting Shell drill in Arctic could lead to catastrophic oil spill, experts warn

It's worth as little as we will allow corporations to pay for it. When people need jobs more than businesses need employees they can pray on the desperation of the less fortunate. Nobody in the United States that works 40 hours a week should be living in poverty.

False.

Value of work = demand for labor against supply of labor

High supply and low demand (unskilled work) = low wage

Low supply and high demand (generally skilled work) = high wage

Hell...

Low supply and low demand (doesn't matter if you have a skill, no one wants it) = low wage

Wages are determined by that and that alone. And unskilled work ALWAYS has a high supply and (due to living in the modern era) low demand, so therefor, even if you work 40 hours an week, if your work is unskilled and anyone can replace you, then your wage is as low as the company can legally go.
 
Indeed, you will then live in poverty while working 40 hours and you will ****ing deal with it and you deserve it.

I'm glad there are good people in the world to counter those that lack empathy and vision. Nobody that works full time should have to live in poverty in this country. There is too much wealth and too many resources wrongly distributed to justify such a thing. It doesn't have to be that way so it shouldn't be that way.
 
Oil wins every time.

Letting Shell drill in Arctic could lead to catastrophic oil spill, experts warn | Environment | The Guardian

"Environmental groups and experts hit out at the US government on Tuesday following its announcement that the Anglo-Dutch oil giant Shell would be allowed to resume offshore exploration and drilling in the Arctic’s American waters. Unforgiving conditions in the Arctic’s icy waters not only make the chances of a spill likely, the complete lack of infrastructure in place to deal with a potential disaster means the consequences of the move could be calamitous, environmental activists and experts say.

According to a study published in February by the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, the same regulatory governmental agency that yesterday issued its approval of Shell’s Chukchi Sea exploration plan, the chances of one or more oil spills occurring as a result of drilling in the Arctic over the next 77 years are 75%. In open water or broken ice, the same study says that between 44% and 62% of crude oil resulting from a spill would stay put – neither dispersing nor evaporating – after 30 days. “Yesterday’s announcement is inconsistent with the federal government’s commitment for stewardship of the Arctic Ocean, it is inconsistent with President Obama’s commitment to combat climate change, and it is a clear prioritization of Shell’s needs ahead of the protection of one of our most important natural resources,” said Michael LeVine, Oceana’s Pacific senior counsel."
No one lives up there. Who cares if a little oil spills?
 
I'm glad there are good people in the world to counter those that lack empathy and vision.

And what will those "good people" do?

Steal from some to give to others? Is that good?

Are you a libertarian or a socialist?
 
Not true. If you have intellect and you can turn that into a skill then you won't die poor.

The idea of capitalism is that the trash gets left behind while the smart move on.

Liberals hate meritocracy and avoid acknowledging its merits like the plague. In Liberaland, the successful entrepreneurial types pay the failures and losers to lie around and pretend to be artists...and burger flippers make $35K per year, plus full benefits.
 
I'm glad there are good people in the world to counter those that lack empathy and vision. Nobody that works full time should have to live in poverty in this country. There is too much wealth and too many resources wrongly distributed to justify such a thing. It doesn't have to be that way so it shouldn't be that way.

You edited this so I'll quote it again.

That is false. That sounds like socialism, not libertarianism.

I've seen so many people who could have taken education a little more seriously and go to college OR if they don't have the intellectual capacity then go to trade school to get a skill and become middle class.

There is very little reason to not get a skill and yet poor people will always rationalize that the system is broken. That is false.

99/100 times a poor person is poor because of the choices THEY made. And even when they're poor, they go and buy Jordan's even though they can't feed their kid. I've seen it and it makes me wonder.

Poverty in the United states is a result of your own actions, not anyone else's.
 
And what will those "good people" do?

Steal from some to give to others? Is that good?

Are you a libertarian or a socialist?

I think caring for people is more important than having more military than the rest of the world combined. If taxes were distributed reasonably we could have lower taxes across the board. If corporations had to pay people living wages instead of forcing the government to pick up the tab to keep people off the street it would lower taxes. If people with less had more it would stimulate the economy because they would actually spend their money and put it back into the economy. I believe in elements of socialism as well as libertarianism. Your view of libertarianism is ignorant because you're focused on the wrong problems.
 
Liberals hate meritocracy and avoid acknowledging its merits like the plague. In Liberaland, the successful entrepreneurial types pay the failures and losers to lie around and pretend to be artists...and burger flippers make $35K per year, plus full benefits.

Yeah it's absolute bull****.

Let me give one example.

My brother is a fuucking math genius. He got into the navy nuclear program.

1 he hated it

2 he was thinking of getting out of it

3 he hit his wife and is now very likely to drop out

4 if he gets the boot, he will most likely become poor since he gave up his chance at the most prestigious nuclear program in the entire ****ing world and doesn't have a college degree

What's funny is that he had the nerve to text my mother to see if she could take him in.

Wastrels are poor because they choose to be.

Smart people can go to college. Even intellectually mediocre people can go to a trade school for plumbing or carpeting or whatever to get a basic skill. Outside of few circumstances (mental retardation?), poverty is a CHOICE.
 
I think caring for people is more important than having more military than the rest of the world combined.
yet a strong military is key to a strong nation. We learned that early on in our history. that in order to be a world power you have to have a world class military.

If taxes were distributed reasonably we could have lower taxes across the board.
proof or evidence.

If corporations had to pay people living wages instead of forcing the government to pick up the tab to keep people off the street it would lowaer taxes.
Most corporations do pay a living wage. now if you are referring to being a burger flipper or a cashier or something like that then well your pay is greatly reduced.
why? the skill to do that job is well not really all that difficult. in fact it is so easy that they are replacing cashiers will automatic checkouts.
also define a living wage. lets put a hard number to it not some blathering nonsense that I get all the time.

I have yet to see anyone justify why a bag boy should make 15 dollars an hour. maybe you can justify it but most businesses can't.
in fact a huge liberal comic book owner in CA that was all for minimum wage hikes now all of a sudden doesn't know how he is going to keep his business open.

with the number of employee's he has he needs an additional 80k dollars a year in income to pay them. he can't increase the price of his good because their price
is printed on the books themselves. it appears that he will be closing his comic book shop since he can't afford the pay increase.

San Francisco $15 Minimum Wage Hike Forces Comic Book Shop to Come Up with Extra $80,000 a Year | Illinois Mirror

there is another book store that has already closed.

If people with less had more it would stimulate the economy because they would actually spend their money and put it back into the economy. Your view of libertarianism is ignorant because you're focused on the wrong problems.

If people with less want more than they have to work for it to get there. it takes skill knowledge and a education.
you shouldn't be calling anyone's view ignorant given the comments you just made.
 
I think caring for people is more important than having more military than the rest of the world combined. If taxes were distributed reasonably we could have lower taxes across the board. If corporations had to pay people living wages instead of forcing the government to pick up the tab to keep people off the street it would lower taxes. If people with less had more it would stimulate the economy because they would actually spend their money and put it back into the economy. I believe in elements of socialism as well as libertarianism. Your view of libertarianism is ignorant because you're focused on the wrong problems.

Your view of libertarianism is phony because you want people to have to pay for other people's entitlements.
 
yet a strong military is key to a strong nation. We learned that early on in our history. that in order to be a world power you have to have a world class military.


proof or evidence.


Most corporations do pay a living wage. now if you are referring to being a burger flipper or a cashier or something like that then well your pay is greatly reduced.
why? the skill to do that job is well not really all that difficult. in fact it is so easy that they are replacing cashiers will automatic checkouts.
also define a living wage. lets put a hard number to it not some blathering nonsense that I get all the time.

I have yet to see anyone justify why a bag boy should make 15 dollars an hour. maybe you can justify it but most businesses can't.
in fact a huge liberal comic book owner in CA that was all for minimum wage hikes now all of a sudden doesn't know how he is going to keep his business open.

with the number of employee's he has he needs an additional 80k dollars a year in income to pay them. he can't increase the price of his good because their price
is printed on the books themselves. it appears that he will be closing his comic book shop since he can't afford the pay increase.

San Francisco $15 Minimum Wage Hike Forces Comic Book Shop to Come Up with Extra $80,000 a Year | Illinois Mirror

there is another book store that has already closed.



If people with less want more than they have to work for it to get there. it takes skill knowledge and a education.
you shouldn't be calling anyone's view ignorant given the comments you just made.

You don't even have to be intellectual. A trade school can give you a rather solid skill that can get you to middle class so long as you're willing to get your hands a little dirty.
 
Your view of libertarianism is phony because you want people to have to pay for other people's entitlements.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

My view of libertarianism is not phony just because it is not the same as your view of libertarianism. The most you could reasonably claim is that I am ignorant. Oh, and focusing on nitpicking my lean says volumes about the strength of your own position.
 
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yet a strong military is key to a strong nation. We learned that early on in our history. that in order to be a world power you have to have a world class military.

We could shrink our military to a fourth of its size and still have an incredibly powerful military. Right wing paranoia and the greed of billionaires is the only reason our military is so bloated.

proof or evidence.

Uh, common sense? If we spent less ridiculous amounts of tax money where we didn't need to we wouldn't need as much to sustain our nation.

Most corporations do pay a living wage. now if you are referring to being a burger flipper or a cashier or something like that then well your pay is greatly reduced.
why? the skill to do that job is well not really all that difficult. in fact it is so easy that they are replacing cashiers will automatic checkouts.
also define a living wage. lets put a hard number to it not some blathering nonsense that I get all the time.

I have yet to see anyone justify why a bag boy should make 15 dollars an hour. maybe you can justify it but most businesses can't.

A bag boy should make a living wage because he lives and works in the United States where there is more than enough wealth and resources to go around.

in fact a huge liberal comic book owner in CA that was all for minimum wage hikes now all of a sudden doesn't know how he is going to keep his business open.

with the number of employee's he has he needs an additional 80k dollars a year in income to pay them. he can't increase the price of his good because their price
is printed on the books themselves. it appears that he will be closing his comic book shop since he can't afford the pay increase.

San Francisco $15 Minimum Wage Hike Forces Comic Book Shop to Come Up with Extra $80,000 a Year | Illinois Mirror

there is another book store that has already closed.

Situations like this are why I think small businesses should pay no taxes and giant corporations should pay more. The amount of money the small businesses would save on taxes would be enough to offset what they lose from increased wages. It would also make them more competitive against the multinational corporations that can go to Asia and get labor for pennies a day.

If people with less want more than they have to work for it to get there. it takes skill knowledge and a education.
you shouldn't be calling anyone's view ignorant given the comments you just made.

Most poor people work their asses off. That's something people like you will never understand or admit. Some people aren't smart enough or other circumstances prevent them from getting the education that would pull them out of poverty. It's true that a lot of poor people are poor because of decisions they made, but that's not true for all of them, and even if it was I don't think a person should have to live in poverty for the rest of their life because of a bad choice they made.
 
This is shroud waving nonsense. Back in 1970 they said we'd run out by 1990 yet today known fossil fuel reserves are greater than ever and increasing by the year



Well that rules out current renewables then



And they certainly do given the taxpayer subsidy they recieve is usually far greater than the value of the energy they produce



But only when a more economically viable alternative is invented. That is still a long way off

I thought it was stupid when people were predicting that oil would run out at such and such time. And people shouldn't be doing it now, even with the technological advancements that have been made in exploration, it can't be determined with certainty now. What is certain, is that there's a bottom of the barrel somewhere. And waiting to arrive there to do something about it is insanity, and if that's what happens in the end, those people's alive at the time are going to be in really unthinkable fashion. In the meantime, I'll continue my push for renewables, which includes my present use of them.
 
What renewable isn't damaging to the environment or ecosystem and doesn't suck on power conversion rates? How are you going to improve performance and portability of each?

Are you actually suggesting simultaneously throwing billions and billions into research of renewables while winding down existing fossil fuel use immediately? Surely you aren't that foolish.

Of course fossil fuel use can't be eliminated immediately. But your not willing to invest in the R&D to do it incrementally. And why would you, by the time this becomes a crisis for humanity, there likely won't be a soul alive on earth that even knows who you once were.
 
I thought it was stupid when people were predicting that oil would run out at such and such time. And people shouldn't be doing it now, even with the technological advancements that have been made in exploration, it can't be determined with certainty now. What is certain, is that there's a bottom of the barrel somewhere. And waiting to arrive there to do something about it is insanity, and if that's what happens in the end, those people's alive at the time are going to be in really unthinkable fashion. In the meantime, I'll continue my push for renewables, which includes my present use of them.

If and when we ever have to worry about an end to fossil fuels it will be a long way off and it will decline gradually. This may take centuries to happen and who knows what kind of power generation we may have invented by that time. Todays renewables are the totally impracticable solution to a non existent problem frankly
 
There have been wind turbines for over 40 years yet not one has ever produced a greater value in energy than the value of the subsidy it recieves. Given this is supposedly the most cost effective renewable to date I think its time to cut our losses



In my view instead of squandering even more resources on this nonsense we should use them to make our fossil fuel plants much cleaner and more efficient


To the bolded, that would be a great move in the interim as well. In America, we have an EPA that's here to ensure that such legislation is monitored for compliance. But because sometimes the EPA does stupid things sometimes (and they do), the right in America wants to eliminate the agency entirely. And as A pointed out to you, it's hard to get such through our congress.
 
If and when we ever have to worry about an end to fossil fuels it will be a long way off and it will decline gradually. This may take centuries to happen and who knows what kind of power generation we may have invented by that time. Todays renewables are the totally impracticable solution to a non existent problem frankly

Well that's the whole point, easy to kick the can down the road because we personally won't be effected, but if those intentions aren't begun, their certainly never finished.
 
That's a little hypocritical.

I only responded in kind. You're the one that dragged leans into it and wrongly accused me of not being a libertarian.
 
Most poor people work their asses off. That's something people like you will never understand or admit. Some people aren't smart enough or other circumstances prevent them from getting the education that would pull them out of poverty. It's true that a lot of poor people are poor because of decisions they made, but that's not true for all of them, and even if it was I don't think a person should have to live in poverty for the rest of their life because of a bad choice they made.

Working hard is meaningless. Working smart is where the money is at. And like I said, trade school is around the corner and not really expensive.

Bad choices reap bad results. What you think doesn't mean **** in regards to that.
 
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