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Letting Shell drill in Arctic could lead to catastrophic oil spill, experts warn

50% of all oil in the oceans is caused by nature.



Renewables will never reach the portability and power conversion of oil, natural gas, and coal. Renewables will never keep up with the output of nuclear power plants.

Renewables work in small scale and to supplement on a large scale. They can only work on a large scale if you kill off most of the human population, reduce the standard of living, or there is a God-like technological breakthrough.

To the bolded. Not in the concentrations we saw when British Petroleum ****ed up.
 
50% of all oil in the oceans is caused by nature.



Renewables will never reach the portability and power conversion of oil, natural gas, and coal. Renewables will never keep up with the output of nuclear power plants.

Renewables work in small scale and to supplement on a large scale. They can only work on a large scale if you kill off most of the human population, reduce the standard of living, or there is a God-like technological breakthrough.

To the bolded. And men would never fly, walk on the moon, or communicate by cellular phones. We can't be bogged down by short sighted and backward thinking people!
 
Not in the slightest. Getting rich is great. But you can't wait till you run out to begin working on replacement.

This is shroud waving nonsense. Back in 1970 they said we'd run out by 1990 yet today known fossil fuel reserves are greater than ever and increasing by the year

Viable replacements need to be in progress now.

Well that rules out current renewables then

And by the way, people can get rich off them too

And they certainly do given the taxpayer subsidy they recieve is usually far greater than the value of the energy they produce

But burning nasty, polluting dinosaur (pun intended) fuels must be stopped at some point. And it will be too, regardless of opinion now.

But only when a more economically viable alternative is invented. That is still a long way off
 
To the bolded. And men would never fly, walk on the moon, or communicate by cellular phones. We can't be bogged down by short sighted and backward thinking people!

What renewable isn't damaging to the environment or ecosystem and doesn't suck on power conversion rates? How are you going to improve performance and portability of each?

Are you actually suggesting simultaneously throwing billions and billions into research of renewables while winding down existing fossil fuel use immediately? Surely you aren't that foolish.
 
What renewable isn't damaging to the environment or ecosystem and doesn't suck on power conversion rates? How are you going to improve performance and portability of each?

Are you actually suggesting simultaneously throwing billions and billions into research of renewables while winding down existing fossil fuel use immediately? Surely you aren't that foolish.

Renewable energy sources will quickly become more efficient as we use them more and get better at it. Green energy is still in its infancy; it's unreasonable to expect it to immediately be just as efficient as the fossil fuels we have been working with for hundreds of years.
 
Hmmm I disagree with you there. The US has the lowest levels of upward social mobility of any developed country. The odds are that in the US if you are born poor you will die poor whatever your level of intellect sadly. This is a state of affairs that has gotten progressively worse with the passing of decades

did you not read the article I posted? there are plenty of other articles out there like it.
umm on it isn't. you only remain poor because you don't take advantage of the opportunities afforded to you or go out and make your own opportunity.

yea they have gotten worse and liberals continue their war on prosperity. it will only get worse.
 
Renewable energy sources will quickly become more efficient as we use them more and get better at it.

There have been wind turbines for over 40 years yet not one has ever produced a greater value in energy than the value of the subsidy it recieves. Given this is supposedly the most cost effective renewable to date I think its time to cut our losses

Green energy is still in its infancy; it's unreasonable to expect it to immediately be just as efficient as the fossil fuels we have been working with for hundreds of years.

In my view instead of squandering even more resources on this nonsense we should use them to make our fossil fuel plants much cleaner and more efficient
 
Oil wins every time.

Letting Shell drill in Arctic could lead to catastrophic oil spill, experts warn | Environment | The Guardian

"Environmental groups and experts hit out at the US government on Tuesday following its announcement that the Anglo-Dutch oil giant Shell would be allowed to resume offshore exploration and drilling in the Arctic’s American waters. Unforgiving conditions in the Arctic’s icy waters not only make the chances of a spill likely, the complete lack of infrastructure in place to deal with a potential disaster means the consequences of the move could be calamitous, environmental activists and experts say.

According to a study published in February by the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, the same regulatory governmental agency that yesterday issued its approval of Shell’s Chukchi Sea exploration plan, the chances of one or more oil spills occurring as a result of drilling in the Arctic over the next 77 years are 75%. In open water or broken ice, the same study says that between 44% and 62% of crude oil resulting from a spill would stay put – neither dispersing nor evaporating – after 30 days. “Yesterday’s announcement is inconsistent with the federal government’s commitment for stewardship of the Arctic Ocean, it is inconsistent with President Obama’s commitment to combat climate change, and it is a clear prioritization of Shell’s needs ahead of the protection of one of our most important natural resources,” said Michael LeVine, Oceana’s Pacific senior counsel."

It is beyond stupid.
 
In my view instead of squandering even more resources on this nonsense we should use them to make our fossil fuel plants much cleaner and more efficient

I would support an effort to make fossil fuels more clean and efficient. Good luck getting that one passed by congress, though.
 
You live in a fantasy world, a world where up is down and left is right. Petroleum set free people, and Reagan's boom is a sharp contrast to Obama's failures.

Renewables cannot replace oil, no matter how hard you cross your fingers, close your eyes and wish it were otherwise.
I have to disagree, but only a little.
Man made hydrocarbon fuels can, and will likely replace organic fuel products.
The main reason is they offer several things that leverage and improve on all the alternative
energy sources, high density storage.
Solar and wind are ok, but without storage, they are almost just a novelty.
Add in hydrocarbon fuel as a storage mechanism, and you have something worth talking about.
It can be carbon neutral, to make the greens happy.
The existing refineries can make their own feedstock, and distribute through existing infrastructure.
The finished product is chemically identical to fuels from organic oil. (maybe a bit cleaner).
The cost, well the energy has to come from somewhere, we will need to rewrite the rules for surplus
solar and wind energy, no more net metering. A unit of energy will need to have the same value regardless
of source.
Let's say the wholesale electric price is $60. per Mwh,
Electricity Monthly Update
one Mwh would make about 18 gallons of diesel at a 70% efficiency.
That would make the diesel $3.33 per gallon.
This may sound high, but represents a ceiling for oil prices.
 
I would support an effort to make fossil fuels more clean and efficient. Good luck getting that one passed by congress, though.

Apparently the gas produced in the new fracking process has only around 20% of the toxicity of other types of fossil fuels. Its cheaper to extract too so thats surely all good
 
Apparently the gas produced in the new fracking process has only around 20% of the toxicity of other types of fossil fuels. Its cheaper to extract too so thats surely all good

Yeah, no problem. Those whining locals just need to learn to drink flammable water.
 
Hmmm I disagree with you there. The US has the lowest levels of upward social mobility of any developed country. The odds are that in the US if you are born poor you will die poor whatever your level of intellect sadly. This is a state of affairs that has gotten progressively worse with the passing of decades

Not true. If you have intellect and you can turn that into a skill then you won't die poor.

The idea of capitalism is that the trash gets left behind while the smart move on.
 
The idea of capitalism is that the trash gets left behind while the smart move on.

I didn't realize disadvantaged and possibly unintelligent people were trash.
 
I didn't realize disadvantaged and possibly unintelligent people were trash.

Economically speaking, yes, unintelligent people without a skill are trash. It gets even worse with automation.
 
Yeah, no problem. Those whining locals just need to learn to drink flammable water.

This sort of stuff gets greatly oversold frankly. Its already reduced overall energy costs in the US by around 25 % so the upside for millions is self evident
 
Economically speaking, yes, unintelligent people without a skill are trash. It gets even worse with automation.

Not being economically significant does not make somebody economic trash. Trash implies complete uselessness and an absolute lack of worth. Using the word trash is more of a projection of how you feel about them methinks.
 
Not true. If you have intellect and you can turn that into a skill then you won't die poor.

The idea of capitalism is that the trash gets left behind while the smart move on.

That might have been true a few decades ago but it certainly isn't now
 
That might have been true a few decades ago but it certainly isn't now

False, my dad was born poor and is most likely going to die rich. He wasn't born in the 50's or whatever.
 
Not being economically significant does not make somebody economic trash. Trash implies complete uselessness and an absolute lack of worth. Using the word trash is more of a projection of how you feel about them methinks.

My bad, unskilled work is not economic trash, it's worth 7 bucks an hour.
 
it's worth 7 bucks an hour.

It's worth as little as we will allow corporations to pay for it. When people need jobs more than businesses need employees they can pray on the desperation of the less fortunate. Nobody in the United States that works 40 hours a week should be living in poverty.
 
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