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Thread: Obama:"Palestinians deserve an end to the occupation"

  1. #71
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    Re: Obama:"Palestinians deserve an end to the occupation"

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you fail to recognize that israel remains a occupying armed force
    it's a continuing provocation

    when the American patriots ran the british out of American lands, the Americans did not then follow the brits across the ocean to fire at them
    the british departure eliminated the provocation that incited the armed resistance

    surprised i need to offer such remedial history to some of our forum members
    Your post is a non-sequitur. Now answer your own question: what reason would the Palestinians have for attacking Israel even if the UN borders were re-established? Fair warning: researching this will require up to three minutes of your time.

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    Re: Obama:"Palestinians deserve an end to the occupation"

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that's interesting. I had no idea that there were no documents made after 1949.



    On the contrary - you are in error. Israel accepted the UN Partition. The Arabs did not, and instead declared war. You could even look it up.

    Look it up, as in a reputable source?!

    What -- and risk all that cognitive dissonance?

    Might be too damaging to his psyche for him to ever stray from the electronic intifada, you know.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Obama:"Palestinians deserve an end to the occupation"

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    give me your address
    i will come and visit you for five minutes and then declare your property to be mine by 'virtue' of my occupation
    The best thing will probably be to give you some other address.

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    Re: Obama:"Palestinians deserve an end to the occupation"

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    ah
    an embargoed gaza
    Gaza was embargoed by Israel for the same reason it was embargoed by Egypt - because they chose to put a terrorist organization in charge and attack their neighbors.

    So yes, we've already run your experiment wherein the Palestinians get full autonomy to use as they please. It pleased them to attack the nation state whose existence they would deny.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: Obama:"Palestinians deserve an end to the occupation"

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    israel is the only nation in the region with nuclear weapons
    of course its security needs are guaranteed
    Nuclear weapons don't seem to deter terrorists from attacking.
    You're talking nonsense. Until the security needs of Israeli citizens can be guaranteed the occupation must not be lifted.

    that does not make armed resistance to an occupying power terrorism
    The murder of innocents for political or religious purposes is always terrorism.

    there is no possible way to assure that no citizen of israel will ever be threatened
    just as there is no way to guarantee that no citizen of the US would be threatened while residing in the US
    but given israel's disproportionately stronger military, only a fool would believe that israel is genuinely subjected to threat as a nation
    No there is no possible way to assure that but the occupation does dramatically decrease the ability of Palestinians to carry out terror attacks, which is evident in the amount of terrorism coming from the occupied West Bank in comparison with the unoccupied Gaza Strip. It's absurd to expect Israel to simply disengage from the WB when it knows for certain that once it does so the security of its citizens will be exposed.

    one of my best friends and his family are currently in israel, visiting their extended family. his brother is buried there. i care for the lives of israelis
    but i also care for the lives of Palestinians - to the same degree
    You may claim you care and you might even believe that you do but your proposed actions suggest otherwise since you cannot claim you care for the citizens and then call for them to be exposed to terror attacks. If you wish to provide a suggestion that will bring an end to the conflict you cannot just do so without addressing the Israeli side's needs or provide any alternative at all to the occupation.

    and while i recognize that rogue actions are inflicted against the israeli citizens, my belief is that subjugating the Palestinian people, displacing them from their own lands, only perpetuates the anger that results in armed conflict

    and no state is advocating massacre
    but one state is occupying the land of another people
    why should those people on the occupied lands have reason to believe in good will from the occupiers
    The majority of Israelis aren't settlers and aren't interested in the WB and want nothing to do with it, certainly not with Gaza. The occupation will however exist as long as there is no solution, as long as the security of Israeli citizens cannot be guaranteed by a final conclusive agreement.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Obama:"Palestinians deserve an end to the occupation"

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the israelis initiated the hostile actions
    look it up
    The Israelis accepted the UN partition. The Arabs rejected it and attacked.

    But hey, let's look it up!

    While the Jewish community accepted the 1937 and 1947 partition plans, the Palestinian Arab leadership, dominated by the Husseini family, rejected both plans categorically. Indeed, most Palestinians turned down the 1937 design, even though it designated only 20 percent of Palestine to the proposed Jewish state.



    The United Nations General Assembly decided in 1947 on the partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab states, with Jerusalem to be an internationalised city. Jewish representatives in Palestine (the Jewish Agency) accepted the plan tactically - though with reluctance - because it implied international recognition for their aims of establishing a state, but on lesser territory than they considered a legal and historical right to.

    The Palestinians and Arabs felt that it was a deep injustice to ignore the rights of the majority of the population of Palestine. The Arab League and Palestinian institutions rejected the partition plan, and formed volunteer armies that infiltrated into Palestine beginning in December of 1947.....



    Israel declared itself a state along those borders. It was attacked in order to wipe it out. In the following war (in which it was incredibly outnumbered and outgunned), Israel managed to consolidate the earlier, spread-out territories into a coherent whole and create semi-defensible (with one major exception) borders. The Arabs chose to gamble on wiping out Israel and taking 100% of the land. They lost.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: Obama:"Palestinians deserve an end to the occupation"

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    if israel abandoned the land of Palestine and returned to the UN decreed israeli borders, why would the Palestinians then attack israel
    I'll go with the assumption that you won't research this yourself. The reason why Palestinians would continue to attack Israel is because they don't recognize Israel's right to exist.

    In 2013 Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh reiterated that the Palestinian Arabs as a whole will never recognize Israel's right to exist, and certainly not to exist as the Jewish state, by saying: "We had two wars...but Palestinians did not and will not recognize Israel"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_..._and_Palestine

    And the reason why simply having superior firepower is not an acceptable solution is because nobody would want to live like that. If your own neighbor threatened you, which would you prefer?

    a)A situation in which your neighbor recognizes your right to peace and security, or
    b)A situation in which the only reason your neighbor isn't attacking you right now is because you have bigger guns?

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    Re: Obama:"Palestinians deserve an end to the occupation"

    Quote Originally Posted by Crovax View Post
    Obama wants a final solution to the problem
    So has the rest of the world since 1945. One doesn't snap one's fingers and solve it. Perhaps the Obama method would be to ship all the Palestinians to Ohio and buy them homes and give them jobs.

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    Re: Obama:"Palestinians deserve an end to the occupation"

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I am not so sure that that is accurate. I think that you could say that everyone outside the Middle East believes that. The Arab populace, not so much.
    I agree. Couple that with Israel's hard-liner position of establishing even more settlements and pushing the Palestine's off the edge of the earth and I see absolutely no progress possible in the near future. Seems like everyone BUT Palestine and Israel want peace between the Israeli's and Palestinians.

    That's why I think the US oughta just butt out and leave them both to wallow in their own crap. They reap what they sew. I got no love for either of them. I am more interested in the United States.

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    Re: Obama:"Palestinians deserve an end to the occupation"

    Quote Originally Posted by Crovax View Post
    Obama wants a final solution to the problem
    godwinned in the very first reply.

    ~rolls eyes

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