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Thread: Tex. bill would bar local officials from issuing same-sex-marriage licenses

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    Re: Tex. bill would bar local officials from issuing same-sex-marriage licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No, complying with the constitutional interpretation of the SCOTUS does not require "amending" the actual laws. Amending a law is an actual process, completely outside of a law being made valid or not. No laws have to be "amended" to comply with a SCOTUS ruling that makes same sex marriage bans unconstitutional.
    I see. So when the Supreme Court held it unconstitutional to punish any crime other than murder with death, a state with a statute that said "the penalty for the crime of rape shall be either imprisonment for a term as prescribed below, or death" had no need to amend or repeal that statute to take out the "or death" part. They could leave it just as it was, only it would no longer mean what it said. Right.

    In the same way, I guess, states with statutes that made it a crime for a doctor to perform any abortion except where necessary to save the life of the mother didn't need to amend or repeal those statutes after Roe v. Wade was decided. No, they could leave them just like they were, but now the text would mean the opposite of what it plainly said.

    And because of this, all this amending and repealing of statutes that states are constantly doing is a big waste of time. That may make sense to someone, but it makes no sense whatever to me.

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    Re: Tex. bill would bar local officials from issuing same-sex-marriage licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetron View Post
    Marriage originated as a religious institution
    [citation needed]

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    Re: Tex. bill would bar local officials from issuing same-sex-marriage licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I see. So when the Supreme Court held it unconstitutional to punish any crime other than murder with death, a state with a statute that said "the penalty for the crime of rape shall be either imprisonment for a term as prescribed below, or death" had no need to amend or repeal that statute to take out the "or death" part. They could leave it just as it was, only it would no longer mean what it said. Right.

    In the same way, I guess, states with statutes that made it a crime for a doctor to perform any abortion except where necessary to save the life of the mother didn't need to amend or repeal those statutes after Roe v. Wade was decided. No, they could leave them just like they were, but now the text would mean the opposite of what it plainly said.

    And because of this, all this amending and repealing of statutes that states are constantly doing is a big waste of time. That may make sense to someone, but it makes no sense whatever to me.
    That is how it works. When Lawrence vs. Texas invalidated sodomy laws in several states the actual laws stayed on the books in those states. In Louisiana, police still arrest some folk for sodomy, they just aren't prosecuted. As far as the police are concerned, the law is still enforceable.

    In fact, Alabama did not repeal its ban on interracial marriage until 1999, several decades after Loving v. Virginia found such laws unconstitutional.

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    Re: Tex. bill would bar local officials from issuing same-sex-marriage licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I see. So when the Supreme Court held it unconstitutional to punish any crime other than murder with death, a state with a statute that said "the penalty for the crime of rape shall be either imprisonment for a term as prescribed below, or death" had no need to amend or repeal that statute to take out the "or death" part. They could leave it just as it was, only it would no longer mean what it said. Right.

    In the same way, I guess, states with statutes that made it a crime for a doctor to perform any abortion except where necessary to save the life of the mother didn't need to amend or repeal those statutes after Roe v. Wade was decided. No, they could leave them just like they were, but now the text would mean the opposite of what it plainly said.

    And because of this, all this amending and repealing of statutes that states are constantly doing is a big waste of time. That may make sense to someone, but it makes no sense whatever to me.
    You do know that laws that make sodomy illegal are still on the books many states, including Texas, right? The laws are unable to be enforced.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Tex. bill would bar local officials from issuing same-sex-marriage licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    In other words "they don't rule the way I want them to for certain cases so that means they are "rewriting" the laws". It is bull****.
    Let's say the Supreme Court one day upheld a new state law that authorized the death penalty to be carried out by guillotine, rejecting a challenge that it violated the Eighth Amendment by inflicting cruel and unusual punishment. Let's also say the Court had offered no legal reasoning to support its holding, while blithely ignoring a mountain of undisputed evidence to the contrary. And that was that every case, every treatise, every study, every law review article in this country's history where scholars had analyzed the issue had concluded, based on all available historical evidence, that the use of a guillotine was exactly the sort of punishment the people who wrote and ratified the Eighth Amendment meant to ban as "cruel and unusual."

    Would you deny that this decision had rewritten the Eighth Amendment? Would you claim that people who attacked the decision on that ground did so only because the Court hadn't ruled the way they wanted, and call their claim bull****? After all, you'd have us believe it's just not possible for judges on the Supreme Court to rewrite any part of the Constitution to substitute their personal views for those of the people who wrote and ratified it. Or, maybe you think the justices are only guilty of "rewriting" the Constitution when they refuse to treat it as a "living, breathing document." I mean, to do that is to commit the heresy of frustrating the statist agenda.
    Last edited by matchlight; 05-12-15 at 06:50 PM.

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    Re: Tex. bill would bar local officials from issuing same-sex-marriage licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    That is how it works. When Lawrence vs. Texas invalidated sodomy laws in several states the actual laws stayed on the books in those states. In Louisiana, police still arrest some folk for sodomy, they just aren't prosecuted. As far as the police are concerned, the law is still enforceable.

    In fact, Alabama did not repeal its ban on interracial marriage until 1999, several decades after Loving v. Virginia found such laws unconstitutional.
    Baloney. As someone who has been involved several times in redrafting ordinances and statutes to bring them into compliance with case law, I know very well that is NOT how it usually works. Both local ordinances and state and federal laws are constantly being amended or repealed to reflect the results of court decisions.

    Assuming what you claim about the laws you mention is accurate, what difference does it make? Once a law is invalid, it is no longer truly a law. The fact the text still appeared in various books or documents would have no practical significance whatever.

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    Re: Tex. bill would bar local officials from issuing same-sex-marriage licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You do know that laws that make sodomy illegal are still on the books many states, including Texas, right? The laws are unable to be enforced.
    I don't know, nor do I care. If they are unenforceable, what difference does it make?

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    Re: Tex. bill would bar local officials from issuing same-sex-marriage licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I don't know, nor do I care. If they are unenforceable, what difference does it make?
    Very good point! Such ability to enforce would directly infringe on privacy and due process, so there's no legal way to do so.
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    Re: Tex. bill would bar local officials from issuing same-sex-marriage licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Interesting. So in all the rulings upholding the state's right to ban homosexual marriage and that banning homosexual marriage is NOT unequal treatment in the past, they were just joking right? Were they rewriting the constitution then, or now? And no, you should know better than to make that last claim with me.
    No one is talking about homosexual marriage. Mother issue is same sex marriage. That is a kinda important legal distinction.
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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Tex. bill would bar local officials from issuing same-sex-marriage licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Baloney. As someone who has been involved several times in redrafting ordinances and statutes to bring them into compliance with case law, I know very well that is NOT how it usually works. Both local ordinances and state and federal laws are constantly being amended or repealed to reflect the results of court decisions.

    Assuming what you claim about the laws you mention is accurate, what difference does it make? Once a law is invalid, it is no longer truly a law. The fact the text still appeared in various books or documents would have no practical significance whatever.
    It is mostly symbolic.

    Louisiana Sodomy Sting: How Invalidated Sex Laws Still Lead to Arrests | TIME.com

    Alabama was a final holdout on desegregation and interracial marriage. It could happen again on gay marriage. - The Washington Post

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