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Thread: Bernie Sanders challenges Hillary Clinton on trade deal and Iraq war

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    Bernie Sanders challenges Hillary Clinton on trade deal and Iraq war

    Bernie Sanders challenges Hillary Clinton on trade deal and Iraq war | US news | The Guardian

    Bernie Sanders, the independent senator from Vermont who is running for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2016, on Sunday outlined what he said were differences between his campaign and that of the clear frontrunner, Hillary Clinton. Sanders again linked the former secretary of state to the “billionaires” he says dominate US politics, but widened his criticisms to include the former secretary of state’s positions on international trade agreements, the Iraq war and the threat of climate change.

    Sanders and Clinton are the only candidates so far to have declared on the Democratic side; Clinton leads polls on the issue by more than 50%. Appearing on CBS on Sunday, Sanders was asked what was wrong with Clinton as a Democratic candidate for president. “Let me give you an example,” Sanders said. “Congress is in the midst of a debate on the Trans-Pacific Partnership [TPP, an agreement with 12 Asian countries]. I am strongly opposed to that trade agreement on the grounds that it follows in the footsteps of other disastrous trade agreements that have cost us millions of jobs.”

    Last month, Sanders wrote an op-ed column for the Guardian on the TPP, the largest trade deal in US history, in which he said: “The TPP is simply the continuation of a failed approach to trade – an approach which benefits large multinational corporations and Wall Street, but which is a disaster for working families. The TPP must be defeated.” TPP is supported by the Obama administration but opposed by many in the Democratic party. In an interview with Yahoo Politics that was published on Saturday, Obama said a prominent voice against TPP, Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, was “absolutely wrong” on the issue.

    Clinton has so far handled TPP with extreme care – last month her campaign chief, John Podesta, was caught in private remarks to donors saying: “Can you make it go away?” On Sunday, Sanders broadened his attack: “On foreign policy, Hillary Clinton voted for the war in Iraq … Not only I voted against, I helped lead the effort against what I knew would be a disaster. “On climate change, I have helped lead the effort against the Keystone pipeline. I’m not quite sure Hillary Clinton has come out with a position on that. So those are just some areas where we differ.” Sanders also repeated his determination to overturn the 2010 Citizens United supreme court decision, which gave rise to unrestrained spending on elections. “As a result of this disastrous Citizens United supreme court decision, clearly the billionaires, the Koch brothers and all this, are owning the political process,” he said. “They will determine who the candidates are. “Let me say this: if elected president, I will have a litmus test in terms of my nominee to be a supreme court justice. And that nominee will say that we are going to overturn this disastrous supreme court decision because that decision is undermining US democracy. I do not believe billionaires should be able to buy politicians.”

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    Re: Bernie Sanders challenges Hillary Clinton on trade deal and Iraq war

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Bernie Sanders challenges Hillary Clinton on trade deal and Iraq war | US news | The Guardian

    Bernie Sanders, the independent senator from Vermont who is running for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2016, on Sunday outlined what he said were differences between his campaign and that of the clear frontrunner, Hillary Clinton. Sanders again linked the former secretary of state to the “billionaires” he says dominate US politics, but widened his criticisms to include the former secretary of state’s positions on international trade agreements, the Iraq war and the threat of climate change.

    Sanders and Clinton are the only candidates so far to have declared on the Democratic side; Clinton leads polls on the issue by more than 50%. Appearing on CBS on Sunday, Sanders was asked what was wrong with Clinton as a Democratic candidate for president. “Let me give you an example,” Sanders said. “Congress is in the midst of a debate on the Trans-Pacific Partnership [TPP, an agreement with 12 Asian countries]. I am strongly opposed to that trade agreement on the grounds that it follows in the footsteps of other disastrous trade agreements that have cost us millions of jobs.”

    Last month, Sanders wrote an op-ed column for the Guardian on the TPP, the largest trade deal in US history, in which he said: “The TPP is simply the continuation of a failed approach to trade – an approach which benefits large multinational corporations and Wall Street, but which is a disaster for working families. The TPP must be defeated.” TPP is supported by the Obama administration but opposed by many in the Democratic party. In an interview with Yahoo Politics that was published on Saturday, Obama said a prominent voice against TPP, Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, was “absolutely wrong” on the issue.

    Clinton has so far handled TPP with extreme care – last month her campaign chief, John Podesta, was caught in private remarks to donors saying: “Can you make it go away?” On Sunday, Sanders broadened his attack: “On foreign policy, Hillary Clinton voted for the war in Iraq … Not only I voted against, I helped lead the effort against what I knew would be a disaster. “On climate change, I have helped lead the effort against the Keystone pipeline. I’m not quite sure Hillary Clinton has come out with a position on that. So those are just some areas where we differ.” Sanders also repeated his determination to overturn the 2010 Citizens United supreme court decision, which gave rise to unrestrained spending on elections. “As a result of this disastrous Citizens United supreme court decision, clearly the billionaires, the Koch brothers and all this, are owning the political process,” he said. “They will determine who the candidates are. “Let me say this: if elected president, I will have a litmus test in terms of my nominee to be a supreme court justice. And that nominee will say that we are going to overturn this disastrous supreme court decision because that decision is undermining US democracy. I do not believe billionaires should be able to buy politicians.”
    He might be a dirty socialist but is right in regard to free trade,breaking up quasi monopoly banks and campaign contributions.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Bernie Sanders challenges Hillary Clinton on trade deal and Iraq war

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    He might be a dirty socialist but is right in regard to free trade,breaking up quasi monopoly banks and campaign contributions.
    You don't have to agree with everything he says to realize he seems to genuinely care about the well being of the average American. I never thought I'd vote for a socialist but Bernie Sanders is saying all the right things.

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    Re: Bernie Sanders challenges Hillary Clinton on trade deal and Iraq war

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    You don't have to agree with everything he says to realize he seems to genuinely care about the well being of the average American. I never thought I'd vote for a socialist but Bernie Sanders is saying all the right things.
    Once people get over the whole socialist label stigma, they realize that socialists often have a great deal of good things to say.
    "Education is the only thing you can do that will change society. Everything else is just a band-aid." - Jacqueline de Chollet
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    Re: Bernie Sanders challenges Hillary Clinton on trade deal and Iraq war

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    “On foreign policy, Hillary Clinton voted for the war in Iraq … Not only I voted against, I helped lead the effort against what I knew would be a disaster. “On climate change, I have helped lead the effort against the Keystone pipeline. I’m not quite sure Hillary Clinton has come out with a position on that. So those are just some areas where we differ.” Sanders also repeated his determination to overturn the 2010 Citizens United supreme court decision, which gave rise to unrestrained spending on elections. “As a result of this disastrous Citizens United supreme court decision, clearly the billionaires, the Koch brothers and all this, are owning the political process,” he said. “They will determine who the candidates are. “Let me say this: if elected president, I will have a litmus test in terms of my nominee to be a supreme court justice. And that nominee will say that we are going to overturn this disastrous supreme court decision because that decision is undermining US democracy. I do not believe billionaires should be able to buy politicians.”
    Sanders is reaching.

    1. On TPP, he has offered no alternatives. If his position is that the U.S. should simply refrain from liberalizing trade, that should be a non-starter IMO. It would imply nothing less than a recognition that the U.S. is at a comparative disadvantage vis-à-vis other trading partners and, worse, has no capacity to become competitive. That would be a very bleak outlook. It would also be a flawed one, as the U.S. actually has many world-class sectors.

    2. The position on the Iraq War probably won't have a large impact, as Clinton has stated that she erred.

    Hillary Clinton on Iraq vote: ‘I still got it wrong. Plain and simple.’ - The Washington Post

    If Sanders wants to gain traction on Clinton's judgment, he will need to find numerous examples that are sufficiently compelling that the Democratic Party primary voters will conclude that her judgment is bad.

    3. The Keystone Pipeline is not a litmus test as to whether one supports a public policy response to climate change. Clinton is decisively on record as supporting such a response, so there's no difference between the two of them on that issue.

    This one Hillary quote about climate change is very, very important - The Washington Post

    4. Clinton opposes the Citizens United decision and has indicated that she might support a constitutional amendment to overturn it.

    Hillary Clinton: 'I would consider' anti-Citizens United amendment | MSNBC

    All said, Sanders will need to differentiate himself from Clinton on more than ideology if he is to have a chance. Specifically, I'm referring to policy substance. On the above issues, the only meaningful difference concerns trade policy, but he has yet to spell out the details of his alternative approach, so aside from perhaps intensifying support among his natural progressive constituency, it's not clear that he would gain much additional support on that position. Of course, the campaign is in its early stages, but successful differentiation will be key to his prospects in the Democratic Party's nominating process.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 05-10-15 at 09:59 PM.

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    Re: Bernie Sanders challenges Hillary Clinton on trade deal and Iraq war

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    Once people get over the whole socialist label stigma, they realize that socialists often have a great deal of good things to say.
    I still say it makes no sense for a socialist to support welfare or wage controls.

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    Re: Bernie Sanders challenges Hillary Clinton on trade deal and Iraq war

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I still say it makes no sense for a socialist to support welfare or wage controls.
    How so, or is it the argument that somehow 'basic safety nets and economic security somehow make more people poor', or something like that?
    Just a democratic-socialist in the heartland of America.CHECK OUT MY TUMBLR(BLOG)HERE "Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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    Re: Bernie Sanders challenges Hillary Clinton on trade deal and Iraq war

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Bernie Sanders challenges Hillary Clinton on trade deal and Iraq war | US news | The Guardian

    Bernie Sanders, the independent senator from Vermont who is running for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2016, on Sunday outlined what he said were differences between his campaign and that of the clear frontrunner, Hillary Clinton. Sanders again linked the former secretary of state to the “billionaires” he says dominate US politics, but widened his criticisms to include the former secretary of state’s positions on international trade agreements, the Iraq war and the threat of climate change.

    Sanders and Clinton are the only candidates so far to have declared on the Democratic side; Clinton leads polls on the issue by more than 50%. Appearing on CBS on Sunday, Sanders was asked what was wrong with Clinton as a Democratic candidate for president. “Let me give you an example,” Sanders said. “Congress is in the midst of a debate on the Trans-Pacific Partnership [TPP, an agreement with 12 Asian countries]. I am strongly opposed to that trade agreement on the grounds that it follows in the footsteps of other disastrous trade agreements that have cost us millions of jobs.”

    Last month, Sanders wrote an op-ed column for the Guardian on the TPP, the largest trade deal in US history, in which he said: “The TPP is simply the continuation of a failed approach to trade – an approach which benefits large multinational corporations and Wall Street, but which is a disaster for working families. The TPP must be defeated.” TPP is supported by the Obama administration but opposed by many in the Democratic party. In an interview with Yahoo Politics that was published on Saturday, Obama said a prominent voice against TPP, Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, was “absolutely wrong” on the issue.

    Clinton has so far handled TPP with extreme care – last month her campaign chief, John Podesta, was caught in private remarks to donors saying: “Can you make it go away?” On Sunday, Sanders broadened his attack: “On foreign policy, Hillary Clinton voted for the war in Iraq … Not only I voted against, I helped lead the effort against what I knew would be a disaster. “On climate change, I have helped lead the effort against the Keystone pipeline. I’m not quite sure Hillary Clinton has come out with a position on that. So those are just some areas where we differ.” Sanders also repeated his determination to overturn the 2010 Citizens United supreme court decision, which gave rise to unrestrained spending on elections. “As a result of this disastrous Citizens United supreme court decision, clearly the billionaires, the Koch brothers and all this, are owning the political process,” he said. “They will determine who the candidates are. “Let me say this: if elected president, I will have a litmus test in terms of my nominee to be a supreme court justice. And that nominee will say that we are going to overturn this disastrous supreme court decision because that decision is undermining US democracy. I do not believe billionaires should be able to buy politicians.”
    Go Bernie.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Bernie Sanders challenges Hillary Clinton on trade deal and Iraq war

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    How so, or is it the argument that somehow 'basic safety nets and economic security somehow make more people poor', or something like that?
    For one thing, it would seem to me a socialist would realize that welfare makes capitalism appear more equatable and thus actually strengthens its support. For another, it falls into reason that socialists would support mutual aid and reshaping ownership and management of the private sector. There is also the fact that Karl Marx himself was opposed to welfare and said it would dissuade the working class away from socialism.

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    Re: Bernie Sanders challenges Hillary Clinton on trade deal and Iraq war

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    He might be a dirty socialist but is right in regard to free trade,breaking up quasi monopoly banks and campaign contributions.
    Check into him, there's more than that that you would like.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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