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Obama’s quiet nuclear deal with China raises proliferation concerns

Actually even the second half of the 20th century was pretty peaceful, but there was indeed the Korean War, Vietnam War and a few other conflicts. Care to tell me what currently comes close to that?

I am not saying the world is full of peace and quiet. I am saying that in historical perspective there is currently relativelu little war or even danger in the world.

Very little war or even danger in the world. Really. 9-11 no big deal, no danger at all. The middle east is in flames, no danger there. North Africa no danger there either. Interesting perspective you have.
 
Want insight?

China has a single aircraft carrier, and it's a Cold War era Soviet carrier.

We have a dozen.

I take it you didn't read a thing

From the report.

On Friday, May 8, the United States Department of Defense released its annual report to Congress on China’s military and security developments. The full report is available in PDF form here. The report offers helpful insight into the U.S. government’s threat perception of China’s military and the issues that are primarily shaping U.S. strategic thinking. After reading the report, the one major takeaway is that the United States is primarily concerned with China’s naval modernization. In fact, such is the emphasis on China’s navy, its maritime activities, and modernization, the People’s Liberation Army’s ground forces receive little mention, relegated to a few scattered paragraphs here and there. In this sense, the Pentagon’s 2015 report appears to be heavily influenced by the U.S. Office of Naval Intelligence’s earlier report from this year (released for the first time in six years) which outlined China’s naval modernization in considerable detail.

The report is a sobering reminder that, despite China’s headline-grabbing land reclamation activities in the South China Sea and its ongoing dispute with Japan over the Senkaku/Diaoyu islets in the East China Sea, the primary driver of China’s military modernization continues to be “potential conflict in the Taiwan Strait.” To this end, the Pentagon’s report outlines the situation in the Taiwan Strait, including the military balance across the strait (spoiler: it heavily favors China). China’s defense budget is roughly ten times that of Taiwan’s, and continues to grow.
 
Newsflash, the Second World War ended 70 years ago.

You didn't indicate what your term "currently" included, and since this country is only a few hundred years old, I included the two World Wars. Granted, this isn't Xerxes, Ghengis Khan, Alexander the Great, or the Roman generals and Egyptian pharoahs over-running the known-world- type incursions that happened in the past, but lots of countries have nuclear capability now, and that changes things. It doesn't make the world more peaceful, but it is hoped that it may serve as a deterrent to idiots who crave power, since turning our planet into glass serves no one's best interest.
 
Oh my bad, China has a modern LIAONING carrier. A single carrier.

"...and avoid direct confrontation with the United States and other countries."

I don't care about thediplomat.com

Here is a better source.

http://www.defense.gov/pubs/2014_DoD_China_Report.pdf

Is China advancing? Sure. Are they scary? Outside of having some nukes, not in particular to us. They're scary as **** to India and their other neighbors though.

China won't attack us.
 
You can always link to me the article. It could also be that you misread them.

I can't do a link till I get on my laptop, but in the meantime, there are articles on Yahoo about China overtaking the US as the world's largest economy, according to the IMF. There are many on Google too, if you care to verify what I posted.
 
I can't do a link till I get on my laptop, but in the meantime, there are articles on Yahoo about China overtaking the US as the world's largest economy, according to the IMF. There are many on Google too, if you care to verify what I posted.

Is China's economy really the largest in the world? - BBC News

The IMF used PPP to come up with the estimate.

Also, in regards to PPP, China is 17.6 t and we are 17.4 t which wouldn't be the end of the world.

Like I said, in raw output, we still kick China's ass. Our raw output is over 16 t and China has a raw output of barely over 10 t.

I disagree with using PPP to make the claim that China is the biggest and scariest because, like I said, the per person is horrific in China compared to the USA.

Oh look, in that article, it even brings up per capita GDP.

Well I dare say Polgara, do enlighten yourself and read this article. I'm not trying to downplay China as insignificant, but the sky isn't falling either and you need to understand that.

I don't know if you have any PERSONAL sources to teach you, but I've got my ex-GE audit staff dad tutoring me ;)
 
Oh my bad, China has a modern LIAONING carrier. A single carrier.

"...and avoid direct confrontation with the United States and other countries."

I don't care about thediplomat.com

Here is a better source.

http://www.defense.gov/pubs/2014_DoD_China_Report.pdf

Is China advancing? Sure. Are they scary? Outside of having some nukes, not in particular to us. They're scary as **** to India and their other neighbors though.

China won't attack us.

I never said China would today, but who knows in the future what they will do. Maybe China and Russia will team up as they are getting cozy with each other. But hey you remind me of Obama who always leads from behind and China is the JV team.
 
I never said China would today, but who knows in the future what they will do. Maybe China and Russia will team up as they are getting cozy with each other. But hey you remind me of Obama who always leads from behind and China is the JV team.

China doesn't like Russia. Putin definitely does not like China.

They're frenemies at best.
 
Makes me wonder how Nixon's opening to China will play out in history.
Not well I think.

I doubt Nixon's trip will play any more negatively than did Teddy Roosevelt's Asian policy. It is a matter of what has happened since. When Nixon went, they were a third world economy with people starving under communism.

Then they adopted the American style economy combined with the most efficient system of government. It was America, Canada and the United States who chose a short term benefit strategy, and exported our manufacturing willingly and eagerly. So now the jobs are gone, which is what economists were warning all through the late 80's and 90's.

We wanted cheap **** and 50" screens and we got them.
 
Obama


Selling your soul to the devil comes to mind.
No deals on limiting Nukes, as the US has with Russia.
Thoughts are?

What about the delegation of American oil men that are going to Iran? Where do their souls stand?


U.S. oil delegation to visit Iran this week - Iranian official - World | The Star Online
ANKARA (Reuters) - A U.S. delegation will visit Iran to review energy investment opportunities while Tehran negotiates a final deal with world powers on its nuclear programme, a senior oil ministry official told Mehr news agency on Monday.
 
One word comes to mind. Greed! Do they think that they and their families will somehow magically escape whatever is on the horizon in our future? Good luck with that!

Sarcasm? Okay, but what planet do you live on? Name one continent on this planet where people are not fighting with each other for one reason or another, except for Antarctica which has little or no humans living there. You call this normal and peaceful?

I can't do a link till I get on my laptop, but in the meantime, there are articles on Yahoo about China overtaking the US as the world's largest economy, according to the IMF. There are many on Google too, if you care to verify what I posted.

To the greed that you mentioned earlier, so many people in Washington are personally profited any more, the lobbyists (that Obama was going to send packing remember) are more numerous than ever. The money that China has made off of 30 years of US and other manufacturing in their country has hugely profited US corporations that send their lobbyists to Washington with plenty of Palm grease (wink wink, nod nod) but it's also raising a strengthening middle class in China, and providing the unintended consequence of a country that grew so fast, its needs to fuel that growth are pushing them in a direction that is causing concerns now here at home. But not just that, China has openly stated that they are concerned about the effects of a uni-polar world, and have opposed US adventurism in Syria, and have been towards the Russian side with regards to Ukraine. They have been generally unhappy with US hegemony and interference, not just in the ME, but more importantly in their own back yard. I'm not the only one arguing that USFP is driving Russia and China close together, foreign policy and international law experts at the CFR and elsewhere have argued the same, and some have argued that global power needs to be shared, and even that a nuclear powered Iran would be a stabilising factor to that region.
 
China doesn't like Russia. Putin definitely does not like China.

They're frenemies at best.

That has no bearing on alliances when there is mutual interests outweighing differences that can be shelved for the time being.
 
You didn't indicate what your term "currently" included, and since this country is only a few hundred years old, I included the two World Wars. Granted, this isn't Xerxes, Ghengis Khan, Alexander the Great, or the Roman generals and Egyptian pharoahs over-running the known-world- type incursions that happened in the past, but lots of countries have nuclear capability now, and that changes things. It doesn't make the world more peaceful, but it is hoped that it may serve as a deterrent to idiots who crave power, since turning our planet into glass serves no one's best interest.

Nobody is going to turn the planet into glass. That is just more hysteria speaking.
It has been 70 years since a hostile army last passed through My country. In historical perspective that is Nothing short of fantastic.
 
Is China's economy really the largest in the world? - BBC News

The IMF used PPP to come up with the estimate.

Also, in regards to PPP, China is 17.6 t and we are 17.4 t which wouldn't be the end of the world.

Like I said, in raw output, we still kick China's ass. Our raw output is over 16 t and China has a raw output of barely over 10 t.

I disagree with using PPP to make the claim that China is the biggest and scariest because, like I said, the per person is horrific in China compared to the USA.

Oh look, in that article, it even brings up per capita GDP.

Well I dare say Polgara, do enlighten yourself and read this article. I'm not trying to downplay China as insignificant, but the sky isn't falling either and you need to understand that.

I don't know if you have any PERSONAL sources to teach you, but I've got my ex-GE audit staff dad tutoring me ;)

Luftwaffe, I was just reporting the IMF announcement. :shrug: I don't have a dog in this fight, so it doesn't matter to me what criteria they used to come up with their statement, but big money managers around the world do pay attention to IMF decisions, so I do, too. I've also read that many of them seem to think an announcement will be made sometime this year about China's currency getting "favored nation" status, and what it might mean for our dollar, and that I am interested in for obvious reasons. Time will tell how all of this might play out, so I'm just waiting along with everyone else to see what happens. :thumbs:
 
It's amazing how quickly the right reverts to fear.

Instead of trying to start a fight because you're afraid they (as in whichever country starts to gain power and influence) may one day be strong, how about just making America better?

The military industrial complex has only held American down. Stop allowing them to scare you into getting more weapons and so they can suck America dry.
 
It's amazing how quickly the right reverts to fear.

Instead of trying to start a fight because you're afraid they (as in whichever country starts to gain power and influence) may one day be strong, how about just making America better?

The military industrial complex has only held American down. Stop allowing them to scare you into getting more weapons and so they can suck America dry.

That's not the right way to address the issue.

The MIC is what got us here in the FIRST place...
 
It's amazing how quickly the right reverts to fear.

Instead of trying to start a fight because you're afraid they (as in whichever country starts to gain power and influence) may one day be strong, how about just making America better?

The military industrial complex has only held American down. Stop allowing them to scare you into getting more weapons and so they can suck America dry.

Exactly.
 
Nobody is going to turn the planet into glass. That is just more hysteria speaking.
It has been 70 years since a hostile army last passed through My country. In historical perspective that is Nothing short of fantastic.

1. It only took one man shooting the Archduke to start WW1.

2. We have been protected by oceans on both sides of our country. With submarines and long range missiles, however, our military has now decided that hostile armies do not need to put troops on our soil to make war with us. In addition, you have doubtless read that one EMP detonated in the stratosphere could instantly shut down our grid for a long time. Since we are dependent on electricity for communication; heating and/or cooling our homes; lighting; keeping perishable foods safe to eat; and so forth; why bother sending an army here to defeat us when it's not necessary.

You may consider this further "hysteria" on my part by mentioning these things, but when scientists and people in government are saying the same things, does it make all of them guilty of hysteria? On the contrary, I feel I'm probably in the company of people who know a lot more than I do about these things.
 
Got us where exactly?

Our economy would not be as big as it is today were it not for the MIC. Does that mean it's a good thing?

Well it depends on your view of priorities in life.

If economics is a priority, the MIC shouldn't be anywhere near #1 for concerns.
 
1. It only took one man shooting the Archduke to start WW1.

2. We have been protected by oceans on both sides of our country. With submarines and long range missiles, however, our military has now decided that hostile armies do not need to put troops on our soil to make war with us. In addition, you have doubtless read that one EMP detonated in the stratosphere could instantly shut down our grid for a long time. Since we are dependent on electricity for communication; heating and/or cooling our homes; lighting; keeping perishable foods safe to eat; and so forth; why bother sending an army here to defeat us when it's not necessary.

You may consider this further "hysteria" on my part by mentioning these things, but when scientists and people in government are saying the same things, does it make all of them guilty of hysteria? On the contrary, I feel I'm probably in the company of people who know a lot more than I do about these things.

That's unfounded and you know it. The assassination was only an excuse because there was a lot of underlying tensions and nuclear deterrents did not exist back then.

EMP goes both ways, it's not like we don't have them. China or Russia won't emp us because they know the retaliation wil not only be likewise, but would have a higher magnitude. All it takes to make an emp is to detonate a nuke right above something. In fact, when you think of it, an emp is moronic. Just detonate the bomb directly on the ****ers pissing you off. Throw more if you need to
 
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Our economy would not be as big as it is today were it not for the MIC. Does that mean it's a good thing?

Well it depends on your view of priorities in life.

If economics is a priority, the MIC shouldn't be anywhere near #1 for concerns.

The proverbial too big to fail was indeed on Eisenhower's mind along time ago, and subsequent comments of his on the subject indicate the concern of perpetual war to satisfy this giant, was the point.
 
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