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Thread: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Um, because you are the epitome, the prime example of the Southern conservative.
    Wrong, grew up in Ohio and Indiana, only moved to TX in 1992. Was always a conservative and the party of Pelosi, Reid, and Obama have absolutely no conservative principles. The Democrat Party left me. Check with JFK and find out the difference.

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by WSUwarrior View Post
    If unemployment was at its lowest level and wages were actually rising then I would be excited.

    The Obama administration has been FANTASTIC for creating low paying jobs. We need a President who is fantastic at creating small business owners, but that would require someone who accepts that equality does not exist in reality.
    Hmm...don't the vast majority of small businesses create lower wage jobs? I believe the gap is @ 22% since small businesses have less capital.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    you don't know how to do any research
    I figure I do a decent job of it. I've been reading the monthly reports from BLS for fifteen years.

    >>BEA.gov, BLS.gov, and the U.S. Treasury are the official sites for data and you ignore them all

    Ignore? I posted links to the data on employment. That comes from the BLS. I help collect it. As far as the debt figures go, yes, there is arguably a problem with borrowing from Social Security. My solution to that would be to allow the economy to continue to recover for another year or two, and then do what Bill Clinton did in 1993 when he raised the top income tax rate by a few points. With effective tax reform (closing loopholes and lowering rates on incomes below $250K — 98% of American households), and a foreign policy that avoids unnecessary wars that cost trillions of dollars, we should be able to get a better handle on debt and deficits.

    Btw, it looks like I was wrong about the interest rate paid to the Trust Fund for the money that's moved from one government account to another. You had asked:

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Where do you think the money comes from to pay for the interest on the SS funds being borrowed?
    It comes from general revenues. And the rate paid in the latest round of borrowing appears to be 1.875% (Nominal Interest Rates on Special Issues) I could be wrong. I'm sure an expert on the federal budget like you could inform me on this.

    About half the national debt is held by various government retirement accounts, principally the SS Trust Fund. That certainly does mean that we will need to manage our affairs responsibly. But where else should that money be invested?

    >>The electorate got it this past election, when will you?

    You like that line, don't you? Republicans have a majority in the House because of severe gerrymandering that likely will not survive the 2020 census. There's some chance they will lose the majority in the Senate in 2016 when the seats being contested will favour the Democrats, as they favoured Republicans in 2014. I suppose you want to use that line as often as you can while it lasts.

    I'm a committed liberal and strong Democrat, but I can analyze economic data without being influenced by that. Sometimes that means I like the numbers, and sometimes it means I don't like them. But my preferences don't change them.

    Otoh, you decide how to interpret them based on yer partisan and ideological bias. Case in point: I posted the figure you get comparing the CPS number from Jan 2009 to today — 6.3 million. That's the same one you get from comparing that ugly mass of figures you posted. But as someone who understands a little bit about the way the labor market and the broader economy operate, I realize that the 4.2 million jobs lost in the first eleven months of Obama's first term, according to that survey (4.3 million if you use the CES data), cannot properly be accounted for by his economic policies. The Great Recession was not something that was going to turn around in a few months. It took a couple of years. This was the problem with the Great Depression. The two events cannot properly be compared to the business cycle recessions we experienced between the Second World War and 2008. Do you not understand that?

    >>Looks like 6 million to me at a cost of 8.2 trillion dollars added to the debt

    You have repeatedly made this argument — that the figures for the debt can somehow be directly related to the number of jobs added during the recovery. I can say I don't expect you'll be hearing from the Nobel Committee for that particular "insight." The debt figures are the result of many things, including tax policy, federal spending, actions by the Federal Reserve, the international marketplace, etc. Of course, the US labor market is similarly affected by a great many factors, including decisions made by businesses and individuals about hiring and working.

    All a president can do, and be held responsible for, is getting things moving in the right direction and keeping that going. It is indisputable that this has occurred under Obama. A steady recovery in the labor market, steady GDP growth, a steady decline in deficits. It looks like it's gonna keep on going. We'll see what effect that has on the elections.

    >>this is the worst recovery in the history of our nation

    Again, you fail to account for the fact that this was a near-collapse of the financial sector, not a business cycle recession. Apples and oranges. Obama's policies helped us avoid another Great Depression that involved severe unemployment and led to a world war.

    >>You buy the rhetoric and ignore the substance buying what you want to believe. Some people will never get it and you appear to be in that group

    Look in the mirror. That's what's there to be seen.
    Last edited by mmi; 05-16-15 at 12:25 PM.

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Wrong, grew up in Ohio and Indiana, only moved to TX in 1992. Was always a conservative and the party of Pelosi, Reid, and Obama have absolutely no conservative principles. The Democrat Party left me. Check with JFK and find out the difference.
    You don't have to grow up in the South to hold to Southern conservative values and voting patterns, Ohio and Indiana have lots of conservatives, you admit to "always being a conservative"....which is exactly what I'm saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Hmm...don't the vast majority of small businesses create lower wage jobs? I believe the gap is @ 22% since small businesses have less capital.
    You are forgetting that the business owner is substantially increasing their earning potential over what they would get working to put food on someone elses table.

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi View Post
    I figure I do a decent job of it. I've been reading the monthly reports from BLS for fifteen years.

    >>BEA.gov, BLS.gov, and the U.S. Treasury are the official sites for data and you ignore them all

    Ignore? I posted links to the data on employment. That comes from the BLS. I help collect it. As far as the debt figures go, yes, there is arguably a problem with borrowing from Social Security. My solution to that would be to allow the economy to continue to recover for another year or two, and then do what Bill Clinton did in 1993 when he raised the top income tax rate by a few points. With effective tax reform (closing loopholes and lowering rates on incomes below $250K — 98% of American households), and a foreign policy that avoids unnecessary wars that cost trillions of dollars, we should be able to get a better handle on debt and deficits.

    Btw, it looks like I was wrong about the interest rate paid to the Trust Fund for the money that's moved from one government account to another. You had asked:



    It comes from general revenues. And the rate paid in the latest round of borrowing appears to be 1.875% (Nominal Interest Rates on Special Issues) I could be wrong. I'm sure an expert on the federal budget like you could inform me on this.

    About half the national debt is held by various government retirement accounts, principally the SS Trust Fund. That certainly does mean that we will need to manage our affairs responsibly. But where else should that money be invested?

    >>The electorate got it this past election, when will you?

    You like that line, don't you? Republicans have a majority in the House because of severe gerrymandering that likely will not survive the 2020 census. There's some chance they will lose the majority in the Senate in 2016 when the seats being contested will favour the Democrats, as they favoured Republicans in 2014. I suppose you want to use that line as often as you can while it lasts.

    I'm a committed liberal and strong Democrat, but I can analyze economic data without being influenced by that. Sometimes that means I like the numbers, and sometimes it means I don't like them. But my preferences don't change them.

    Otoh, you decide how to interpret them based on yer partisan and ideological bias. Case in point: I posted the figure you get comparing the CPS number from Jan 2009 to today — 6.3 million. That's the same one you get from comparing that ugly mass of figures you posted. But as someone who understands a little bit about the way the labor market and the broader economy operate, I realize that the 4.2 million jobs lost in the first eleven months of Obama's first term, according to that survey (4.3 million if you use the CES data), cannot properly be accounted for by his economic policies. The Great Recession was not something that was going to turn around in a few months. It took a couple of years. This was the problem with the Great Depression. The two events cannot properly be compared to the business cycle recessions we experienced between the Second World War and 2008. Do you not understand that?

    >>Looks like 6 million to me at a cost of 8.2 trillion dollars added to the debt

    You have repeatedly made this argument — that the figures for the debt can somehow be directly related to the number of jobs added during the recovery. I can say I don't expect you'll be hearing from the Nobel Committee for that particular "insight." The debt figures are the result of many things, including tax policy, federal spending, actions by the Federal Reserve, the international marketplace, etc. Of course, the US labor market is similarly affected by a great many factors, including decisions made by businesses and individuals about hiring and working.

    All a president can do, and be held responsible for, is getting things moving in the right direction and keeping that going. It is indisputable that this has occurred under Obama. A steady recovery in the labor market, steady GDP growth, a steady decline in deficits. It looks like it's gonna keep on going. We'll see what effect that has on the elections.

    >>this is the worst recovery in the history of our nation

    Again, you fail to account for the fact that this was a near-collapse of the financial sector, not a business cycle recession. Apples and oranges. Obama's policies helped us avoid another Great Depression that involved severe unemployment and led to a world war.

    >>You buy the rhetoric and ignore the substance buying what you want to believe. Some people will never get it and you appear to be in that group

    Look in the mirror. That's what's there to be seen.
    Learn how to use the quote function. Until then I am done with you

  7. #367
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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by WSUwarrior View Post
    You are forgetting that the business owner is substantially increasing their earning potential over what they would get working to put food on someone elses table.
    But your point was that you wanted to see wages increase in macro sense and this would be done by increasing the number of small businesses. If the only person seeing income increases is the owner, you are not creating much of increase in wages in the macro, you are doing what you lamented, the increase in the creation of lower wage jobs...that don't have to have the larger min wages, that are not full time, that do not have ins benefits. Small bus is great, but it has to be anchored to and in support of larger business.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  8. #368
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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Learn how to use the quote function. Until then I am done with you
    Such hypocritical nonsense, look who is talking:

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    mmi;1064627171]Why
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    imagep;1064626384]Reagan ...
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  9. #369
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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    But your point was that you wanted to see wages increase in macro sense and this would be done by increasing the number of small businesses. If the only person seeing income increases is the owner, you are not creating much of increase in wages in the macro, you are doing what you lamented, the increase in the creation of lower wage jobs...that don't have to have the larger min wages, that are not full time, that do not have ins benefits. Small bus is great, but it has to be anchored to and in support of larger business.
    Huh? Not all businesses are mom and pop hamburger stands or gas stations. They can be construction companies, logging companies, trucking companies, small manufacturing companies, etc etc etc. Those are all good paying jobs being created. Thats a LOT of bread being won for a lot of families.

  10. #370
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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by WSUwarrior View Post
    Huh? Not all businesses are mom and pop hamburger stands or gas stations. They can be construction companies, logging companies, trucking companies, small manufacturing companies, etc etc etc. Those are all good paying jobs being created. Thats a LOT of bread being won for a lot of families.
    Now you are flip-flopping your argument, I already pointed out that the vast majority of jobs created by SB are lower paying jobs, the gap is @ 22%. You countered by saying it creates richer owners, sidestepping the wage gap which is due to lower capital levels. I'm afraid we are done.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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