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Thread: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Good grief. What a bunch of nonsense that had nothing to do with what I posted.
    You lack the ability to respond; i get it. Perhaps the superior approach would be to hesitate to respond rather than putting your lack of knowledge of the subject on full display.

    Ugh, stop quoting me. I can't read your liberal Obama worshipping drivel.
    Do you have a problem with reading? Not once did i mention Obama in the post for which you chose to reply. It pains me to watch you stumble throughout this thread.
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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Dr. Mulligan further exhibits his shortcomings with Keynesianism:

    "After all, the stimulus spending penalized success, since its benefits — for example, extending unemployment insurance — were aimed at people and businesses with low incomes, and not at those who were working and/or achieving a certain income level. So it would be no surprise if the result was to keep incomes below what they would have been — as in other cases, a counterproductive result of a well-intentioned program."

    How utterly ridiculous! How does providing money to people penalize success, unless you view helping those in need as a punishment for those without? Incomes fell because job losses mounted in the wake of deflationary pressure, not because unemployment benefits extended. In fact, the prevailing freshwater idea is that wages need to fall to a market clearing level. Yet experiences from the great depression, Japan, etc... show that downward nominal wage rigidity negates the classical hypothesis.

    It seems your lack of exposure to both the data and literature have led you to be hopelessly outmatched on this topic.
    I've heard people complain about Keynesian economics for years and kinda laugh about it. It's as if people fail to realize that since the Great Depression each time there's been a major economic downturn the one thing governments turn to in order to turn the economy around is Keynesian economic in some shape, form or fashion. And once all the "stimulus" spending is over, things more or less go back to the way they were.

    Like it or not, but there are times when the only entity that can give the economy the kick start it needs is government.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I've heard people complain about Keynesian economics for years and kinda laugh about it. It's as if people fail to realize that since the Great Depression each time there's been a major economic downturn the one thing governments turn to in order to turn the economy around is Keynesian economic in some shape, form or fashion. And once all the "stimulus" spending is over, things more or less go back to the way they were.

    Like it or not, but there are times when the only entity that can give the economy the kick start it needs is government.
    Nonsense.

    If " Keynesian " solutions worked Japan would be sitting pretty right now.

    They blew through 10 separate stimulus packages in the 90s running up record amounts of debt and they even invested in " infrastructure ".

    Now, they have the Highest debt to GDP ratio in the world and the only one buying ( monetizing ) their debt is the BoJ.

    They've had to raise taxes twice which lead to two consecutive quarters of economic contraction and they'll have to raise it again soon just so they can keep up with their massive amount of debt.

    If Keynesian solutions worked there would have actually been " shovel ready " jobs and we wouldn't be struggling under this perpetual economic stagnation.

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    You lack the ability to respond; i get it. Perhaps the superior approach would be to hesitate to respond rather than putting your lack of knowledge of the subject on full display.



    Do you have a problem with reading? Not once did i mention Obama in the post for which you chose to reply. It pains me to watch you stumble throughout this thread.
    Your incredibly idiotic post about Keynes had nothing - zero - to do with that link that I posted. I wasn't arguing the merits of the stimulus spending, nor the economics behind it - the poster asked me to prove that most of the stimulus money was spent before 2013, and that link showed how the stimulus money was spent, and when. Your clueless and sanctimonious posts show how far behind the discussion you are. You jumped in to drone endlessly about a post I made to someone else, and that was not at all related to your self serving, off topic and boring rant.

    Now, go away and post your liberal, Obama loving posts to someone who cares what you think and someone who wants to debate the merits of the stimulus with you. I don't fall into either one.
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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    BTW, since Nov. 2007 (just before the Great Recession), there are now 1,277,000 LESS Americans employed full time and 3,113,000 MORE Americans employed part time.

    That is what roughly $12 trillion in government stimuli/deficits/Fed spending, ZIRP and 89 months have accomplished.

    Still waiting for someone to factually prove to me that had the government done nothing that the economy would not have recovered even more in that time.

    Oh, that's right...no one can.


    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/arch...t_12072007.pdf

    Table A-9. Selected employment indicators


    Once again, I am neither Dem nor Rep.
    Last edited by DA60; 05-11-15 at 03:47 PM.
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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    BTW, since Nov. 2007 (just before the Great Recession), there are now 1,277,000 LESS Americans employed full time and 3,113,000 MORE Americans employed part time.


    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/arch...t_12072007.pdf

    Table A-9. Selected employment indicators
    1. It is "fewer" not "less." You sound ignorant when you get it wrong.
    2. I see that again you ignore the warning that numbers get revised and so you shouldn't use the archived releases. The Actual (seasonally adjusted) change has been -1,103,000 full time and +2,980 part time.
    3. But while in either case full time is lower and part time is higher....what is the current trend?



    In other words, Full time employment took a massive drop in the recession but has steadily built back up since then, while part time jobs took a huge increase and have bounced up and down since then.

    What I would like to know is why the difference in level from an arbitrary point seems more important to you than the trend?
    Last edited by pinqy; 05-11-15 at 04:01 PM. Reason: suddenly turned European with some of my numbers.
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    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    If " Keynesian " solutions worked Japan would be sitting pretty right now.
    You have such a good handle on the US economy that you feel comfortable analyzing the Japanese experience. Interesting.

    >>They've had to raise taxes twice

    They have raised taxes. Are you sure they had to?

    >>If Keynesian solutions worked

    You do know that raising taxes in a recession runs counter to Keynesian theory.

    Not everyone agrees with yer … analysis:

    "Japan Shows Keynes Is Right and Austerity Is Wrong," The Hankyoreh, Apr 24, 2014

    "Is the state of the Japanese economy proof that Keynesian economics doesn’t work?," Quora, Aug 2012

    "Keynes, trains and automobiles," The Economist, reprinted on eastwestcenter.org, Jan 12, 2013

    "Is Abenomics discrediting Keynesianism?," Pieria, an online magazine, Nov 27, 2014

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    In other words, Full time employment took a massive drop in the recession but has steadily built back up since then …

    … the difference in level from an arbitrary point seems more important to you than the trend
    I think you get an even clearer picture looking at the last few decades:

    emp_ft_1968_2015.jpg

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi View Post
    You have such a good handle on the US economy that you feel comfortable analyzing the Japanese experience. Interesting.

    >>They've had to raise taxes twice

    They have raised taxes. Are you sure they had to?

    >>If Keynesian solutions worked

    You do know that raising taxes in a recession runs counter to Keynesian theory.

    Not everyone agrees with yer … analysis:

    "Japan Shows Keynes Is Right and Austerity Is Wrong," The Hankyoreh, Apr 24, 2014

    "Is the state of the Japanese economy proof that Keynesian economics doesn’t work?," Quora, Aug 2012

    "Keynes, trains and automobiles," The Economist, reprinted on eastwestcenter.org, Jan 12, 2013

    "Is Abenomics discrediting Keynesianism?," Pieria, an online magazine, Nov 27, 2014
    Lol !!

    Japan lowered taxes more than once when they were blowing through one stimulus package after the next back in the 90s.

    100 Trillion Yen in 10 different Stimulus packages from 1992 to 2000 with multiple tax cuts produced only debt. Massive debt as Japan continued to ignore their structural economic issues in place of a purely ideological approach to growing economies.

    Stimulus fails because it just papers over the REAL reason economies continue to suffer.

    Whether its tried here or in Japan the results are the same. Failure and increased debt as REAL WEALTH simply bides its time , hoarding their capital waiting for the progressive nonsense and Government misallocation to end.


    Now, is it too difficult for you to do 5 minutes of research before showing up here and making a fool of yourself ?

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    BTW - not that I am a fan of GW Bush at ALL - but for you Obamabots out there...

    since he took office, every major age demographic has less people employed now except two - 20-24 and 55 plus.

    The most important demographic for economic growth is the 25-54 age group. This is the group that predominately has children, raises them and buys the most big ticket items. Before that no. And after 55, most either are retired or their children have left home and they are saving for retirement.
    Since Obama took office, despite all the massive deficits/stimuli and Fed spending, there are actually 211,000 less Americans employed in this important age range (and 404,000 less 16-19 year olds).

    BTW - there are over 4 million (?!?) less people employed in this age range since Nov. 2007 (just before the Great Recession).

    Table A-9. Selected employment indicators

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/arch...t_02062009.pdf

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/arch...t_12072007.pdf


    As I have said many times, this is a McDonald's/Mercedes recovery (maybe I should change that to Walmart/Mercedes recovery).

    Crappy fundamentals mixed with TONS of government debt and corporate stock buybacks.
    'What kind of sick and twisted toy factory is this?'
    'We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile, and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away.'
    "Better to be dead and cool, than alive and uncool."

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